TEXT :
12.06 hrs.
MR. SPEAKER: I am calling the father of the House, Shri Indrajit Gupta.
... (Interruptions)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (MIDNAPORE): Sir, kindly listen to what I am saying. It is very important. I believe that a large number of hon. Members have given notices referring to the dismissal of the Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, by the Government. This is a very serious matter which we wish to raise on the floor of the House because already three months have passed since his services were dispensed with. Up to now, we have had no chance of discussing this matter or hearing the Government explaining the reasons for its action. It is an unprecedented action. Such a thing has never happened since the country achieved independence.
Therefore, we request you that as soon as possible you kindly admit our notice under Article 239 for a comprehensive discussion on this matter. It is agitating the whole country. (Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kamal Nath.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: We are not discussing the matter. Please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)*
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats. I am appealing to you to please take your seats. Please understand that the Chair has not given any ruling. I have called Shri Kamal Nath.
... (Interruptions)
______________________________________________________________________________
*Not Recorded.
SHRI KAMAL NATH (CHHINDWARA): Why are you agitated? (Interruptions). There is no reason to be agitated. (Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri Kamal Nath.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except what Shri Kamal Nath says.
(Interruptions)*
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, you have to control them. They do not want that it should be raised in the House. (Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Khanduri, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
AN HON. MEMBER: Sir, I am on a point of order...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order during Zero Hour. What is your submission, Shri Kamal Nath?
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kamal Nath, what is your submission?
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, my submission is that an event has taken place which is unparallel in the history of the country...(Interruptions) Sir, are you allowing them to speak?...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please do not disturb him. Please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
_____________________________________________________________________________ *Not Recorded.
MR. SPEAKER: What is your submission please?
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, my submission is that an event has taken place which is unparallel in the history of this country. It is not merely the sacking of a Naval Chief...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.
(Interruptions)
SHRI AJIT JOGI (RAIGARH): Sir, the matter is very serious. It relates to the security of the nation...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kamal Nath, what is your submission?
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, if you want me to speak, you have to control them...(Interruptions)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
MR. SPEAKER: What is your submission, Shri Kamal Nath?
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, I can make my submission if you control them.
SHRI CHETAN CHAUHAN (AMROHA): Sir, I have to make a submission... (Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: You please take your seat. I have allowed Shri Kamal Nath, not you.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except what Shri Kamal Nath says.
(Interruptions)*
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.
Shri Kamal Nath, what is your submission?
... (Interruptions)
_____________________________________________________________________________
*Not Recorded.
MR. SPEAKER: I have called his name. I will call you later. Please understand the procedure.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please understand that I have called Shri Kamal Nath.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaubey, please take your seat. I have called Shri Kamal Nath.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kamal Nath, what is your submission?
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, this is not ....(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will call you after him.
Shri Kamal Nath.
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, from all the events ....(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please understand that I have already called his name. How can you speak now?
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is not good.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)*
MR. SPEAKER: I am appealing you to please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Prabhunath Singh, please take your seat. What is this?
... (Interruptions)
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, from all the events and overtones, there is only one objective appearing in this matter and that is how to have a compliant bureaucracy and compliant officers in the Armed Forces. The whole matter has a needle of suspicion, whether it is aircraft carrier or frigates, whether it is submarines or frigates and whether it is torpedos or missiles. The whole matter is reeking of corruption. Sir, the nation needs to know what has happened in this matter. We had a statement of the former Chief of Naval Staff.
We also have a statement of the former Chief of Air Staff. In this connection, I have given a notice for appointing a Joint Parliamentary Committee. I want to know whether you are accepting the motion moved by us and many others for constituting a Joint Parliamentary Committee? ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very surprising that the Parliament of India cannot discuss an unprecedented event. ... (Interruptions)
SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)*
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Is the dismissal of the Naval Chief a usual and routine matter? Can the Parliament not discuss it? The Defence Minister is going on the television ... (Interruptions)
__________________________________________________________________________
*Not Recorded.
MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri Somnath Chatterjee, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is not good. Please take your seat.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, if the hon. Members on that side think that they can throttle the entire Opposition, then they are totally mistaken. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Prabhunath Singh, what is this? This is not good. I have called Shri Somnath Chatterjee. Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Let him complete. I will allow you after him.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI DIGVIJAY SINGH (BANKA):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, senior Ministers and leaders are sitting there. Can they not control them? ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaubey, please take your seat. What is this? What is going on here?
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : What is this? Do they not want to hear what we want to say? Let them controvert it. I am sure, there are very eminent people on that side. Mr. Speaker, whatever may be said, justified or unjustified, this is an unprecedented event. In 50 years, since Independence, for the first time, a Chief of one of the ... (Interruptions)
SHRI V. SATHIAMOORTHY (RAMANATHAPURAM): In `Zero Hour', without giving any notice to the hon. Speaker, they cannot raise it. Unless they have given a notice, they should not be allowed.
MR. SPEAKER: I have allowed him. Please take your seat. What is this?
SHRI V. SATHIAMOORTHY : It cannot be discussed during the `Zero Hour'current issue alone can be raised in the Zero Hour. Otherwise it will lead to a bad precedent to the proceedings of the House. Because the matter raised in the House is not a current subject. It can be raised by any other rules of the Parliament Proceedings.
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
SHRI V. SATHIAMOORTHY: There is a procedure. It is not a matter to be raised during `Zero Hour'. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA (CALCUTTA NORTH-EAST): Sir, I am on a point of order. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI A.C. JOS (MUKUNDAPURAM): A senior leader is not being allowed to speak. We will not let them go on doing like this. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. I have already permitted him. Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaubey, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Gopal, please take your seat. I allowed Shri Somnath Chatterjee to speak.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : Sir, I am on a Point of Order.
MR. SPEAKER: There is no Point of Order during Zero Hour. Please take your seat.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, we have seen several versions coming out in the papers. Many statements have come out. Hon. Defence Minister has given his version on the television. Hon. Prime Minister has also referred to ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I appeal to you to take your seats. This is not good. I have called Shri Somnath Chatterjee.
SHRI PRABHUNATH SINGH :
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaubey, please understand that I will have to take action against you.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, if I say anything improper or unparliamentary, you will judge it and take a decision.
What I have been saying is that since the dismissal of the Naval Chief on the 30th of December, several versions have appeared in the press. ...(Interruptions)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Prabhunath Singh, you are disturbing the House unnecessarily. Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record.
(Interruptions) *
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Prabhunath Singh, I am giving you a warning. Please take your seat.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am thankful to you.
Hon. Defence Minister has made statements which have appeared in the press outside the House. He has also given an interview on television. Hon. Prime Minister has referred to this dismissal outside the House. I feel the Parliament of India will be failing in its duty if it does not refer to this matter, advert to it and discuss it with all the seriousness it demands. It is a matter of great concern. We talk of parliamentary democracy. The Government also talks of parliamentary democracy. But, neither the Prime Minister nor the Defence Minister comes to the highest forum of democracy in this country and takes the House into confidence. Either of them does not make a statement here. We are totally kept in dark as to what is the real reason, if there was any reason at all.
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : The former Naval Chief has even held a press conference, we find from the newspapers, in which serious allegations have been made as to how such a decision was taken. He has made allegations of improprieties. He has made allegations of corruption in defence deals. Does not the Government feel obliged to come before the House and take the House into confidence and tell the country through this House as to what has happened and what is the response of the Government? A very serious charge has been made by the Defence Minister that the former Naval Chief had become a security risk. That was the most serious allegation that could be made against an Army officer or a Naval officer.
Sir, with regard to that, there is not a single response. What has the Government or the Defence Minister said in reply to Shri Bhagwat's press conference? I do not take any notice of it.
Sir, this is an amazing thing which is happening in this country. Is there a Government? The purpose of trying to post a particular officer who has made allegations on the communal basis, as to the religion of a particular person is on the record of the Defence Ministry... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now, Shri Chetan Chauhan.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): After giving promotion to such an officer, such action has been taken. There are comments about the adverse comments being quashed by the Defence Minister himself, and this House does not know anything about it. We have to go by conflicting reports in the newspapers.
Therefore, Sir, we demand an immediate discussion on this issue as to why there is no action taken. Otherwise, nothing can be done.
MR. SPEAKER: Now, Shri Chetan Chauhan.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, you allow those who have given notices ... (Interruptions)... We have given notice. You allow us first... (Interruptions)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
MR. SPEAKER: I have received several notices. I am calling one by one.
... (Interruptions)
PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): You have not given a chance to our side to speak... (Interruptions)
SHRI CHETAN CHAUHAN (AMROHA): Sir, it seems that they have only permitted Somnath Dada ... (Interruptions
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, Shri Chetan Chauhan, what is your submission?
Every official who works for the Government of India works at the pleasure of the President of India. The Government has every right to remove anybody, and especially on such sensitive matters.
If such matters are going to be raised in Parliament, no Government will be able to function here. Today it is our Government. Tomorrow, it can be their Government... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now, Shri Mohan Singh.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI CHETAN CHAUHAN : Sir, I have not completed yet. I want to raise two more points... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Mohan Singh has also given notice.
... (Interruptions)
DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY (VISAKHAPATNAM): We are the main Opposition party. You should call from our side also... (Interruptions)
SHRI CHETAN CHAUHAN : Sir, I agree with what Shri Somnath Chatterjee has said that it is unprecedented. But it is also unprecedented that people who are sacked, their issues are being raised here. If such issues are going to be raised here, this Parliament will become a place of the sacked people only... (Interruptions)