XII LOK SABHA DEBATES, Session III, (Winter)
XII LOK SABHA DEBATES, Session III, (Winter)
Wednesday, December 16, 1998 /Agrahayana 25, 1920 (Saka)
Type of Debate: SHORT DURATION DISCUSSIONS (RULE-193)
Title: Further discussion regarding atrocities committed on minorities in
various parts of the country raised by Shri Arif Mohammad Khan on the 8th
December,1998. (Concluded)
TEXT :
16.00 hrs.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): Sir, first of all, I would say that I will
not take much time. But I would confess that having listened to the debate in
this House, I felt a little bit sorry because on either side, the trend of the
discussion was as if we are trying to divide the House. That is not correct.
We should not have done that.
My first point is that the atrocities on the minorities are on the
increase. It is a fact and even the Government has not denied it. The
atmosphere of intolerance has developed. I agree that it is also correct.
But that should not be a reason to divide the communities or religions. We
should find out the root cause and try to find remedies. The root cause is
simple. I will be frank in telling this. It is a misinterpretation of the
Hindu ethos by a small group which led to this situation. We read in the
Vedas and the Upanishads about the Vasudeiva Kutumbakam. It means that the
world is one family. In the Bhagavad Gita, we read that like all the rivers
reach the sea, all faiths reach the Ultimate Truth, the God. We have the
answer to the man's search for the Ultimate Truth in Aham Brahmasmi and Tat
Tvam Asi. If these are the tenets of the Hindu religion, how can a small
section of people misinterpret it and develop intolerance?
I would submit that intolerance is totally out of place as far as
Hinduism is concerned. Being a Christian myself, I have no hesitation to say
that Hinduism is one of the most tolerant religions in the world. I have no
hesitation to say that.
In Cochin, if you go today, there is a Jewish Synagogue. Hundred years
Before Christ, Jews came to India. They lived in peace and harmony till a
couple of years back. Even today there are about seven Jewish families. In the
first century A.D., Saint Thomas, a disciple of Jesus Christ, came to Kerala.
He was received by the Hindu ruler. We have Christianity in Kerala from the
first century A.D. And till we got Independence, Christians were protected--I
underline the word `protected'--there, by the Hindu rulers. Near my village
there is a place called Kallupadam. My friends will be knowing that. There, we
have a church which is separated only by a wall from a temple. The church is
500 years' old.
The Hindu ruler found a dead body of a Christian being taken to a
distant place through the Mani Mala River. Having seen the body being taken to
a distance place, the Hindu ruler called that family and asked: "Where are you
taking the body?" The family replied, "To a distant place for burial." Then,
the ruler said, `Have a Church here, have a burial ground here.' The church
which is 500-year old is even today separated only by a small wall from a
temple. It is only seven kms. from my residence. The name of the place is
Kallupadam. This is the great tradition of this country. Does the Hindu ethos
or tenets or tolerance of our great tradition has no place? That is one thing.
Secondly, why has this intolerance developed? This is the basic
question. A small group, the frontal organisation of the ruling party, wrongly
understands the perception of Hinduism, spreads intolerance and naturally
reaction is there from the other side also. Therefore, this kind of thing is
happening.
Today, we are unnecessarily taking it beyond a point. Let us find
corrective measures. The Muslim community is the largest minority. In Kerala,
I would say, in two-three districts, they were living in full harmony for
centuries. Nobody will say that any Muslim there is not a patriot. Nobody will
say that any Christian is unpatriotic. We have no such charge that anybody is
calling any Christian or any Muslim, unpatriotic or anti-national. We have no
such charge. That is not the issue here. The basic issue is that atrocities
are actually committed on some sections of minorities. What is the solution? I
have a solution.
The hon. Home Minister is saying that his Government will take steps.
When will your Government take steps? Is it after atrocities are committed?
What is needed is prevention of atrocities. Can you prevent it? It can be
prevented only by a political decision. We want the political leader in the
hon. Home Minister, Shri Advani, to ensure that the frontal organisations of
the B.J.P. do not encourage intolerance in the country.
16.10 hrs (Mr. Speaker in the Chair)
Coupled with that, if they take governmental actions, then this can be
sorted out. I do not think that this can be stopped only by Government action.
Therefore, I would request the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to please see the
political aspect of it and ensure that the Ruling Party and its frontal
organisations do not resort to such a campaign which will encourage atrocities
on the minorities, so that they are forced to believe that the Government of
the day is supporting them in these atrocities. I hope that he would give an
assurance to this House in this regard.
With these words, I conclude my speech.
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EªÉÉäÆ +ÉiÉÒ ½þè*
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MAHABUBNAGAR): Sir, would the hon. Home Minister yield
to me?
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am thankful to the hon. Home Minister for having
yielded. While one can discuss the merits of a particular film, how does the
hon. Home Minister view the tendency to turn every question into Hindu-Muslim
question? The corollary to the same is whether receiving honour from a country
like Pakistan which has been observed as... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I am sorry, I do not want to be drawn into this.
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Does the hon. Home Minister recall that Shri Morarji
Desai was also given the same award?
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I am sorry, it is not a valuable intervention. I do not
want to be drawn up at a tangent. I am not discussing either `Fire' or `Dilip
Kumar'. I may have much to say about that. I may agree with many things that
these people may be saying. But if they were only saying it, I would not
contradict it. But the moment they take the law into their hands, indulge in
vandalism, or indulge in indecency, I have a duty. Therefore, I have done it.
I am not discussing either the film or participants or those who are
supporting it. I am not discussing... (Interruptions)
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : I am discussing it.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Please, you have drawn yourself into a different
direction. We are concerned, at the moment, that no citizen in this country
-irrespective of whether he belongs to a minority or a majority, this minority
or that minority -- should feel unsafe.
Sir, let me recall history. What was the basis of partition? The
success of Muslim League achieved in creating a sense of insecurity in the
Muslim community that `if India is not divided, India remains undivided as the
Congress wants it, the result will be that you will be underlings to the Hindu
majority' and remain insecure.
I am not going into the details of the attacks that were made on
Gandhiji those days. After all, it was Gandhiji, who talked about Ramrajya
®úÉ¨É ®úÉVªÉ EòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ ¨ÉèÆxÉä xɽþÒÆ EòÒ* {ɽþ±ÉÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú +MÉ®ú ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä ®úÉ¨É ®úÉVªÉ EòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ EòÒ,
BEò xÉÉèVÉ´ÉÉxÉ xÉä, BEò Ê´ÉtÉlÉÒÇ xÉä MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ ºÉä {ÉÚUôÉ ÊEò +É{É ½þ¨ÉEòÉä Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò º´É®úÉVÉ
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Eò½þÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò º´É®úÉVÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ, ®úÉ¨É ®úÉVªÉ*
Now here in India, Ramrajya concept has always been something of an ideal
kingdom
ªÉ½þ Eò±{ÉxÉÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ {ÉÖ®úÉxÉÒ ½þè* ... (
Interruptions) Please, it is not going
to be a conversation between us... (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Gandhiji's concept of Ramrajya and his concept of
Ramrajya is quite different... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I am not yielding... (Interruptions) I do not want anyone to
support me, please... (Interruptions)
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (BARAMULLA): Gandhiji's concept was different.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I am aware of it.
+É{É vÉÒ®úä-vÉÒ®úä Eò½þäÆMÉä, VÉèºÉä +ÉÊ®ú¡ò ºÉɽþ¤É xÉä {ɽþ±Éä-{ɽþ±Éä ½þÒ =ºÉEòÉ ÊVÉFò ÊEòªÉÉ, +ªÉÉävªÉÉ
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xÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉEòÉä Eò½þÉ +Éè®ú º´ÉÉMÉiÉ ÊEòªÉÉ* ºÉÉlÉ ½þÒ ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ Eò½þÉ ÊEò +MÉ®ú +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä
Uô& ºÉÉ±É {ɽþ±Éä ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þÒ ½þÉäiÉÒ iÉÉä ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè =ºÉ PÉ]õxÉÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù VÉÉä ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ ½þÖ<ÇÆ, ´Éä xÉ
½þÉäiÉÒÆ*
This is what Shri Arif Mohammad Khan has said. Am I right?
SHRI ARIF MOHAMMED KHAN (BAHRAICH): Yes.
¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É EÞò¹hÉ +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ: ¨ÉèÆ ªÉ½þ SÉÒVÉ <ºÉÒ ®úɨɮúÉVªÉ Eòä ºÉxnù¦ÉÇ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* +É{É VɤÉ
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Eò½þÉ ½þè* =ºÉÒ |ÉEòÉ®ú ºÉä ÊVÉºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú ºÉä 6 ÊnùºÉ¨¤É®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ +¦ÉÒ ¨ÉèÆxÉä ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þÒ iÉÉä
ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä ºÉ¨{ÉÉnùEòÒªÉ Ê±ÉJÉÉ, B]õ ±Éɺ]õ, +ÉÊJÉ®ú +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä ¨ÉÉxÉÉ ÊEò 6 ÊnùºÉ¨¤É®ú EòÒ PÉ]õxÉÉ
nùÖ¦ÉÉÇMªÉ{ÉÚhÉÇ lÉÒ*
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¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É EÞò¹hÉ +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ: ¨ÉèÆ +¦ÉÒ =ºÉ {É®ú +ÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ*
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Better late than never. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Better late than never. This is true. This is exactly what I
say. We are not common people. It is often said,
Eò½þÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ºÉɨÉÉxªÉ ±ÉÉäMÉ VÉÉä
½þèÆ,
They have a very short memory.
=xÉEòÉä EòÖUô ªÉÉnù xɽþÒÆ ®ú½þiÉÉ, <ºÉÒʱÉB {ÉÖ®úÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ
´Éä ¦ÉÚ±É VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ* ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä |ɨÉÖJÉ ½þèÆ, ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ VÉÉä ±ÉÉäEò ºÉ¦ÉÉ EòÉ ºÉnùºªÉ
¤ÉxÉiÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ±ÉÉJÉÉäÆ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉ |ÉÊiÉÊxÉÊvÉ ¤ÉxÉiÉÉ ½þè, ´É½þ ÊxÉʶSÉiɰü{É ºÉä |ɨÉÖJÉ ½þè*
ºÉÉÆºÉnùÉäÆ EòÉä <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú EòÒ ºÉ±ÉäÊE]õ´É ¨Éè¨ÉÉä®úÒ xɽþÒÆ ®úJÉxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB* ºÉ±ÉäÊE]õ´É +¨ÉÒÊxÉʶɪÉÉ EòÉ
SÉÉVÉÇ ¨ÉÖZÉ {É®ú ±ÉMÉ ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉèÆ iÉÉä <iÉxÉÉ ½þÒ Eò½þÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò ¨ÉèÆxÉä +¦ÉÒ VÉÉä BEò ¶É¤nù
EòÉ |ɪÉÉäMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ `nùÖ¦ÉÉÇMªÉ{ÉÚhÉÇ', ¨ÉèÆxÉä <iÉxÉÉ ½þÒ Eò½þÉ,
I regard that as an
unfortunate incident.
±ÉäÊEòxÉ VÉ¤É 6 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä PÉ]õxÉÉ ½þÖ<Ç iÉ¤É =ºÉ ÊnùxÉ ÊVÉxÉ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä
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´ÉEiÉ´ªÉ ªÉÉ BEò UôÉä]õÒ Ê]õ{{ÉhÉÒ xɽþÒÆ EòÒ lÉÒ, {ÉÚ®úÉ ±ÉäJÉ Ê±ÉJÉÉ, ´É½þ ¡òÖ±É {ÉäVÉ +ÉÊ]õÇEò±É
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