<b>XII LOK SABHA DEBATES, <i> Session III, (Winter) </i> </b>
XII LOK SABHA DEBATES, Session III, (Winter) Thursday, December 17, 1998 /Agrahayana 26, 1920 (Saka)


Type of Debate: GOVERNMENT BILLS
Title: Further discussion on the motion for consideration of the High Court and Supreme Court Judges (Salaries and Conditions of Service Amendment) Bill, 1998.

TEXT :
15.48 hrs.

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VɽþÉÆ iÉEò ¨ÉèÆxÉä {ÉÚ´ÉÉÇOɽþ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þÒ, iÉÉä º´ÉiÉÆjÉiÉÉ Eòä {ɽþ±Éä +Éè®ú +ÉVÉÉnùÒ Ê¨É±ÉxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù iÉEò ªÉ½þ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ lÉÒ ÊEò xªÉɪÉɱɪÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ VªÉÚ®úÒ ½þÖ+É Eò®úiÉÒ lÉÒ* VªÉÚ®úÒ Eòä ºÉɨÉxÉä ¨ÉÖEònù¨ÉäÆ {Éä¶É ½þÉäiÉä lÉä* +MÉ®ú ÊEòºÉÒ EòäºÉ EòÉä ±Éʨ¤ÉiÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ <®úÉnùÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ lÉÉ iÉÉä ºÉÉ®úÒ VªÉÚ®úÒ EòÉä BEò VÉMɽþ ®úJÉÉ VÉÉiÉÉ lÉÉ ÊEò ´Éä +JɤÉÉ®ú xÉ {ÉgøäÆ, ®úäÊb÷ªÉÉä xÉ ºÉÖxÉäÆ +Éè®ú +É{ÉºÉ ¨ÉäÆ Êb÷ºÉEòºÉ xÉ Eò®úäÆ, BäºÉÒ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ lÉÒ* {É®úÆiÉÖ +¤É ºÉɱÉÉäÆ iÉEò ¨ÉÖEònù¨ÉÉ SɱÉiÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú VÉÉä ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ xªÉɪÉÉvÉÒ¶É ½þÉäiÉä ½þèÆ ´Éä ®úäÊb÷ªÉÉä ¦ÉÒ ºÉÖxÉiÉä ½þèÆ, ]õÒ.´ÉÒ. ¦ÉÒ nùäJÉiÉä ½þèÆ, +{ÉxÉä ʨÉjÉÉäÆ ºÉä Ê´ÉSÉÉ®úÉäÆ EòÉ +ÉnùÉxÉ-|ÉnùÉxÉ ¦ÉÒ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ iÉlÉÉ ÊVÉxÉ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä ¨ÉÖEònù¨ÉäÆ EòÉ +ÉvÉÉ-+vÉÚ®úÉ YÉÉxÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè, =xÉEòä ÊxɹEò¹ÉÇ ¦ÉÒ ºÉÖxÉiÉä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú Ê¡ò®ú EòäºÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ +{ÉxÉÒ vÉÉ®úhÉÉ ¤ÉxÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ* <ºÉºÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä +ɶɯEòÉ ½þè ÊEò ´Éä ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ nùäxÉä ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÚ´ÉÉÇOɽþ ºÉä ¨ÉÖEiÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäiÉä* <ºÉʱÉB VɽþÉÆ ½þ¨É =xÉEòÒ ºÉÖJÉ-ºÉÖÊ´ÉvÉÉBÆ ¤ÉgøÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, ½þ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ {É®ú ¦ÉÒ ®úÉäEò ±ÉMÉÉxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB*

+ÉVÉ xªÉɪÉɱɪÉÉäÆ EòÒ VÉÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä SÉSÉÉÇ EòÒ ÊEò VÉÉä ¨ÉÖEònù¨Éä ±Éʨ¤ÉiÉ ®ú½þiÉä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú =ºÉEòä EòÉ®úhÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ {Énù JÉɱÉÒ ®ú½þiÉä ½þèÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨Éä®úÉ Eò½þxÉÉ ½þè ÊEò xªÉɪÉɱɪÉÉäÆ EòÒ ±É¨¤ÉÒ-±É¨¤ÉÒ UôÖÊ^ªÉÉÆ ¦ÉÒ <ºÉEòä ʱÉB Eò¨É ÊVɨ¨ÉänùÉ®ú xɽþÒÆ ½þèÆ* ºEòÚ±É +Éè®ú EòÉì±ÉäVÉÉäÆ EòÒ iÉ®ú½þ ºÉä xªÉɪÉɱɪÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ ±É¨¤ÉÒ UôÖÊ^ªÉÉÆ nùäxÉä EòÉ EªÉÉ iÉÉi{ɪÉÇ ½þè? ªÉ½þ ¨Éä®úÒ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ +ÉiÉÉ* VÉ¤É ºÉ¦ÉÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®úÒ EòɪÉÉDZɪÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÉ±É ¦É®ú EòÉ¨É SÉ±É ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä xªÉɪÉɱɪÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ UôÖ^Ò EòÒ EªÉÉ +ɴɶªÉEòiÉÉ ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè? <ºÉʱÉB ´É½þÉÆ {É®ú UôÖ^Ò EòÒ +´ÉÊvÉ Eò¨É EòÒ VÉÉxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB* ¨ÉèÆxÉä ºÉÖxÉÉ ½þè ÊEò xªÉɪÉɱɪÉÉäÆ Eòä ¡òèºÉ±Éä ¶ÉÒQÉ ºÉ´ÉÉäÇSSÉ xªÉɪÉÉ±ÉªÉ ¨ÉäÆ +É VÉÉBÆ, <ºÉEòä ʱÉB Eò¨{ªÉÚ]õ®ú EòÒ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÒ MÉ<Ç ½þè* ®úÉVªÉ Eòä =SSÉ xªÉɪÉɱɪÉÉäÆ EòÉä ºÉ´ÉÉäÇSSÉ xªÉɪÉÉ±ÉªÉ ºÉä Eò¨{ªÉÚ]õ®ú Eòä ¨ÉÉvªÉ¨É ºÉä VÉÉäc÷É VÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè iÉÉÊEò ´É½þÉÆ Eòä ¡òèºÉ±Éä ¶ÉÒQÉ ºÉ´ÉÉäÇSSÉ xªÉɪÉÉ±ÉªÉ ¨ÉäÆ {ɽþÖÆSÉ VÉÉBÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ <ºÉEòÉ EªÉÉ ¨ÉiÉ±É¤É ½þè +MÉ®ú ¡òèºÉ±Éä nùäxÉä ¨ÉäÆ ½þÒ nùä®ú ±ÉMÉ VÉÉB?

¨ÉèÆ {ÉÒ.+É<Ç.B±É. Eòä Ê´É®úÉävÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ ½þÚÆ* {ÉÒ.+É<Ç.B±É. ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú +Éè®ú EòɪÉÇ{ÉÉʱÉEòÉ EòÉä VÉMÉÉxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É Eò®úiÉÒ ½þè {É®úÆiÉÖ BEò nù¡òÉ xªÉɪɨÉÚÊiÉÇ ¸ÉÒ B.BºÉ.+ÉxÉxnù xÉä ¦ÉÒ Eò½þÉ lÉÉ:

"The judiciary wakes up the executive ... It will continue to be the alarm clock."

ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ (¸ÉÒ Eòä.|ÉvÉÉxÉÒ): ¨Éä½þiÉÉ VÉÒ, +¤É ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ EòÒÊVÉB*

|ÉÉä. +ÊVÉiÉ EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú ¨Éä½þiÉÉ (ºÉ¨ÉºiÉÒ{ÉÖ®ú) : ʺɡòÇ {ÉÉÆSÉ Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ +Éè®ú ±ÉMÉäÆMÉä* +¦ÉÒ ½þÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ®úɹ]Å{ÉÊiÉ Eòä.+É®ú.xÉÉ®úɪÉhÉxÉ VÉÒ xÉä ¦ÉÒ Eò½þÉ lÉÉ:

"People's faith in judicial redressal would be eroded if justice delayed is seen as justice denied."

<ºÉ ʺlÉÊiÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ ºÉÉäSÉxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB* VÉʺ]õºÉ +ÉxÉxnù Eòä EòlÉxÉ {É®ú ¨ÉèEºÉ EòÉ EòlÉxÉ ½þè:

'Periodic wake up calls are necessary in India not only for the dithering executive but also for the slow grinding judiciary."

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+ÊVÉiÉ EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú ¨Éä½þiÉÉ VÉÉ®úÒ

16.00 hrs.

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Here I quote what the famous British editor, Mr. Richard Ingrams said:

"I have come to regard the law court not as a cathedral but as a casino where so much depends on the throw of the dice."

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¨É½þÉänùªÉ, <x½þÒÆ EòÉ®úhÉÉäÆ ºÉä ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ Ê´ÉvÉäªÉEò EòÉ {ÉÚhÉÇ °ü{É ºÉä ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ Eò®úxÉä ¨ÉäÆ +{ÉxÉä +É{É EòÉä +ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇ {ÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨ÉèÆ Ê´É®úÉävÉ iÉÉä xɽþÒÆ Eò°üÆMÉÉ* xªÉɪÉÉvÉÒ¶ÉÉäÆ EòÉ <ºÉ +ɨÉnùxÉÒ ¨ÉäÆ EòÉ¨É xɽþÒÆ SɱÉiÉÉ ½þè, iÉÉä +ɨÉnùxÉÒ ¤Égøä, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ´Éä xªÉɪÉÊ|ÉªÉ ½þÉäÆ* ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ Ê¤É±É {É®ú xªÉÚ]Å±É ®ú½þiÉä ½þÖB, +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ*

SHRI S. MALLIKARJUNIAH (TUMKUR): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I wish to speak in Kannada. I have already indicated my desire to speak in Kannada if necessary arrangements were made. (Interruptions) You should also know that there is a language called Kannada in the South. You should be in touch with the languages which are existing in this country.

SHRI S. MALLIKARJUNAIAH (TUMKUR) : Mr. Chairman Sir, the Government has brought this High Court and Supreme Court Judges Amendment Bill, 1998 to enhance the salaries and other facilities of judges. This Bill enable the judges to get more facilities. Specially, columns 4, 6, 9 and 11 of Bill have to be implemented by the Government with immediate effect and without any further delay. I express my hapiness about the intentions of this Bill. Pay Commissions are set up from time to time to look into and to improve the salary and other facilities of Government employees. There will be no representative of labour class and farmers in the Pay Commission set up by the Government of India. High officials and retired officials constitute the Pay Commission. They provide sufficient statestics and enable the white collared officials to get more and moe facilities. The common people also would agree with the recommendations of the Pay Commissions. In fact, this is the tradition in our country. The Commission increases the salary of IAS, IPS and other highly pleaced officials.

The retirement age of Central Government employees has been extended by two years by the Pay Commission recently. This has created tension in the minds of educated youths in the country. The youths are feeling that they are lossing their job opportunities because of the increase in the retirement age of Government employees from 60 to 62 years and from 58 to 60 years. These employees who enjoy all the facilities for about 25 to 30 will get another two years of extension. This logic of extension is not at all convincing to me. Unemployment problem is rampant throughout our nation. Some people are becoming naxalites. They are involving themselves in criminal activities. They are resorting to violence. What is the reason for this? Justice is not meted out to them. They feel that there is no justice for them. They are also feeling that the hapless youths are being exploited to the maximum extent The higher officials are grabbing all the facilities and there are no job ______________________________________________________________________________

* Original in Kannada

opportunities to the youths. This feeling in the minds of the younger generation is encouraging them to become revolutionary. They begin to indulge in so many anti-social activities. The Government should give a serious thought about this matter. The Commission has given its recommendation and the Government is implementing those recommendations. But who set up this Commission? It is the previous Government which has constituted this Commission. Most of the white collared officials and other Government employees who are responsible for the Constitution of the Pay Commission. This Commission benefits the Government employees.

But who will look after the poor man. He is residing in a hut. He cannot send his children to school. There is no cloth for him. There are no medical facilities for him. He does not feel that tomorrow is bright for him. Who will think about him ? Major chunk of the money is being utilised for providing all kinds of facilities for the white collared officials. The poor man is becoming very poor and he ultimately will resort to begging. Now can you being in equality in the society? Some people say that we are all equal. But where is equality and where is equal opportunity in our society? Those who have got an upper hand in the society have equal oppotunities (perhaps best opportunities). The poor and depressed person has not future. He cannot earn his livelihood. He cannot get two square meals a day. This is the pathetic condition of a poor man in our country. He cannot impart any kind of education to this children. Under these critical circumstances our own people are ignoring the need of poor people. They want everything on this earth for themselves. I call it as heinous crime which we are committing against the society. This is not at all proper. Judges should get more salary. They should be given jobs even after their retirement. They should also get all pensionary benefits including gratuity, family pension, etc. etc. On the other hand the poor man gets nothing if he dies in an accident. What facilities are we giving to children of a poor man who dies in an accident? What does his widow get? We cannot give a house to her to live. Even a site is not given to the widow and her children. A paltry amount of Rs 20,000/- is not sanctioned to the family of the dead. What type of equality is this? What type of society we have? We have the Consitution. People have the right to vote. Unfortunately, we forget the fact that the poor people are exploited. They are ignorant and we want them to continue like that. There is a proverb in Kannada. According to the proverb there is oil with the producer (Ganigitti) and it will be of no use to the child if it is not given to him. We discuss so many issues here. Unfortunately we have no time to help the poorer section of our society.

In the lower courts the condition of Bar Associations is pathetic There is no library. If there is some kind of library there are no books in that library. There is no place to sit and read in that so called library. The judges of the lower courts do not have any facilities. The Government should do something in this regard. We have reminded the Government many times about these problems of lower courts. We have written to both Karnataka Government and the Government of India. But strangely nothing has been done in this regard. People say that justice should reach the doors of the people. There is a long pending demand for setting up a bench of the Supreme Court. Siilarly, in South India there are from States like Karanataka, Andhra Pradesh and other States for establishing High Court benches to enable the people to get justice. This matter has been discussed in greater details during the 10th Lok Sabha. Our former Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh is here. In fact the agitation regarding this matter for a pretty long time in Andhra Pradesh. Even then the court benches were not set up.

MR.CHAIRMAN : Now you may please conclude.

SHRI S. MALLIKARJUNAIAH: Sir, we give advance notices to ventilate our views during zero hour. We are not given any chance. So please let me continue.

SHRI NADENDLA BHASKARA RAO (KHAMMAM): Mr. Chairman, Sir, so far as establishing a Bench in South India is concerned, we are all for it. It has been demanded long ago and it is pending with the Government. Since the Law Minister is from South India, he can definitely consider it.

SHRI S. MALLIKARJUNIAH (TUMKUR): In Andhra Pradesh, an agitation was going on for a long time for establishing a Bench at different places, but it was not done. That is the point I would like to make.

MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI K. PRADHANI): Please conclude.

SHRI S. MALLIKARJUNIAH : When we give a notice at 9 or 9.30 a.m. to speak in the Zero Hour, we are not given a chance. On other occasions also we are not given a chance to speak. Why should we come to the House when we do not get a chance to ventilate our grievances? I made this remark yesterday also. You are kind enough to give me a chance to speak because you have been in Parliament for so many years and you know the difficulties of the Members.

I want the Supreme Court and the High Courts to be liberal. The Supreme Court judges and advocates do not like to leave Delhi. They do not want that a Bench should be established in South India. Likewise, senior advocates at Bangalore do not want that a bench should be opened at Dharward or Gulbarga.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

SHRI S. MALLIKARJUNIAH : Sir, this is the attitude. How can we impress our Government unless we are given sufficient time to speak out on the floor of the House. We write letters. Do they respond to these letters? Do they call us and ask us to sit down to discuss the issues? They have neither patience nor time. Then, why should we come to the House? I am sorry that I am wasting my precious time. I am a practising advocate and I am an agriculturalist also. If we are not given sufficient time, it is better to sit in our own places. We have studied the subject. We have come here to do justice to the subject.


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