MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please understand.
MAJOR GENERAL BHUVAN CHANDRA KHANDURI, AVSM (GARHWAL): This is not correct. You cannot have confrontation... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now, the hon. Minister, Shri Madan Lal Khurana.
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MR. SPEAKER: Now, the matter is over.
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MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats. I have called the name of Shri Krishana Kumar Chaudhary, now.
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But the remark made by Shri Madan Lal Khurana is very objectionable because he has said: `You wait for a day so that the Additional Solicitor-General goes to some court' - I do not know what Court is there `and, after taking a direction from that court,' (Interruptions)
SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR: Please hear me.
There are occasions and occasions where the court summons have been rejected by this House and even by the Assemblies. I do not know what your decision would be but the decision of yours should not be deferred on the plea that there is some clarification to be made by some judge in some court at the advice of the Additional Solicitor-General.
I have been saying this time and again for the last many years that the courts are going beyond their jurisdiction. I tell you that every time we have to respect the honour of the Judiciary but the Judiciary is indicating to the whole world that they have no respect for Parliament. This cannot continue. There should be responsive respect for each other. This is not happening.
I am sorry that Ministers are succumbing under pressure. I do not know what their weakness is. They are not asserting their own rights and they are not able to defend the dignity of this House. This is why I thought it necessary that I should take objection to it.
SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Speaker, how is it relevant what happens in the court? You take a decision this way or that way; it is your authority and it is your decision. I do not say that you should give the decision today. You give the decision after a month but this should not be the condition. The suggestion made by the hon. Minister of Parliamentary Affairs was totally out of place and against the dignity of this House.
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We have discussed this in the House during the last Session also. Many hon. Members want the issuance of LPG coupons and the quota for telephone connection restored. As far as my knowledge is concerned, the matter is pending before the Court and they have challenged the discretionary power of the Minister. I ask the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs to get the full details of what is pending before the Court in Kerala and we will take a decision tomorrow.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, please allow us to make some submissions.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No. Please understand that I have asked the Parliamentary Affairs Minister to get the information by tomorrow. We will decide it tomorrow.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, when this quota system was first introduced, that was made available to the Members of both the Houses. But, Sir, in the last Lok Sabha, the hon. Speaker, that is, your predecessor had looked into the matter because some of us had expressed certain views on it; it is because the system of quota is being frowned upon in many areas and in many respects regarding housing and all that. Thereafter, a conscious decision was taken by your distinguished predecessor and he made an announcement in the House that it will no longer be available to the Members of Lok Sabha. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI V. SATHIAMOORTHY (RAMANATHAPURAM): That is not the question. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : I have not made any comment about you. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please allow him to speak.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Sathiamoorthy, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI V. SATHIAMOORTHY (RAMANATHAPURAM): No. That is not the issue. The issue is whether the court can interfere with this or not. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No. Please take your seat. I have allowed Shri Somnath Chatterjee to speak.
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SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : After that, Sir, in the present House, many hon. Members had made representations to you; and in your kind judgment you had decided that it should be again made available. Whatever happened thereafter, we do not know; and if the hon. Minister says that there is no order on the Government or on the hon. Speaker, staying the applicability of this decision, I do not see any reason why the Government is not issuing it again. ... (Interruptions) Kindly allow me. We were hearing all of you. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI VAZHAPADY K. RAMAMURTHY: Shri Somnath Chatterjee, we were asked by the hon. Speaker to stop it and so, we stopped it.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Then, the hon. Speaker, in his wisdom, has done it. We do not know the order or any such thing. My only submission is this. Many of us feel very much aggrieved that in various spheres which are within the domain of the hon. Speaker, orders have been made by the judiciary. There is already some misunderstanding, if not a tension in this matter. Many of us are approving Public Interest Litigation when it suits us, but when it goes against us, we are opposing it. I have been in this profession for some time and I have the great honour of being here in this House also; and so, some lines must be drawn here. This was the matter, I remember, Shri Chandra Shekhar and other hon. Members had raised in the last Lok Sabha. I would implore the House to discuss this very serious matter in depth. But let us not commence it this way -- I am sorry that a very responsible Member of the House and a Minister for that matter Shri Ramamurthy has used the word `blackmailing'.
SHRI VAZHAPADY K. RAMAMURTHY: I am sorry. It was a general comment. I am a responsible person and I am not shirking from that responsibility. I am a lawyer, but I am not practising.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Kindly wait for me to finish it. Sir, I understand that there are strong feelings.
SHRI VAZHAPADY K. RAMAMURTHY: Sir, in a general sense, I have commented that courts are blackmailing. That is all.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Therefore, Sir, on a vital matter where the future functioning of the parliamentary democracy is involved, the Parliament has certain rights and certain obligations. The Constitution of India is very clear -- laws passed by Parliament can be set aside by the courts. That has happened many times. Therefore, if necessary those matters can be reviewed. But just saying that we are not governed by any High Court order or Supreme Court order, does not behove us. That is my respectful submission.
Sir, it is entirely for you to take a decision as to whether these facilities should be made available to all the Members of the House immediately or not. I do not know and I never had the occasion even to know what type of order it is. But we are supreme in our areas.
Judiciary has also certain rights under the Constitution. Let us not create conflict amongst us. Let us try to carry on in a manner which will help our country as a whole. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This matter is over.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) *
* Not Recorded.