XI LOK SABHA DEBATES,   Session V (Monsoon) 

Tuesday, August 12/Shravana 21, 1919 (Saka)



Type of Debate:	SHORT DURATION DISCUSSION (RULE-193) 	

Title:	Further discussion regarding need for streamlining the Public
Distribution System.(Contd.-Concluded) 

TEXT :
 18.04 hrs

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Now let us take up Discussion Under Rule 193.

1804 hours

SHRI P.C. CHACKO (MUKUNDAPURAM): I am sorry I did not know that we  have  come
to take up the Discussion under Rule 193.

	Sir,  I thank you very much for giving this opportunity. You have very
kindly permitted for a discussion on the basis of the question about this  new
PDS  system.  Now  in  the  whole  country,  people  are very much anxious and
agitated over these changes because it is very adversely affecting them.

	Sir, this Targeted Public  Distribution  System,  with  all  its  good
intentions,  is  not doing good to the people in various States. These are the
reports which are coming to us.

	I   come  from  a  State  where  the  Public  Distribution  System  is
functioning very well. I am not speaking about my own State, Kerala, but I  am
quoting  it  as  an  example  in  the  background  of this new Targeted Public
Distribution  System.  According  to  the  requirement  of  this  new   Public
Distribution  System, rice and wheat are for the distribution in the State and
it was a promise from the Central Government. When  the  new  Targeted  Public
Distribution  System comes up, there are new norms and on the basis of the new
norms, the Government is deciding what should be the quota allotted  for  each
State. But we are a State which is not growing wheat or rice. We are basically
a  State which is growing cash crops and earning thousands of crores of rupees
for the whole country.  (Interruptions).  When  these  cash  crops  are  being
cultivated  in  the  State  and when we export these cash crops like cardamom,
paper,  ginger,  etc.  we  get  foreign  exchange.  That  is  the  pattern  of
cultivation  which is more economical to the State of Kerala. So, we are asked
to continue with that. We are encouraged to continue the cultivation of  these
cash  crops  and,  at  the same time, we are offered that the Government would
compensate for them. The Central Government took it as their responsibility to
feed the States like Kerala which are deficit States as far as wheat and  rice
are concerned.

	Today, the Public Distribution System in Kerala requires not less than
1,75,000 tonnes of rice every month. The hon. Minister knows that when the new
Targeted Public Distribution System comes, Kerala's quota is going to go down.

	The hon. Minister has come to the conclusion that some people  are  to
be  excluded  from  this category. I do not oppose these norms, because I know
that those who are above a certain level need not be given the benefit of  the
Public Distribution System. But what about the States where rice and wheat are
not grown and where the State's economy is largely dependent on the cash crops
and  exportable  commodities?  We  are asked to do that. So, there are certain
agreements  and  certain  background  to  this.  So,   the   Targeted   Public
Distribution System should not ignore these facts.

	If  you take a view of the whole thing, the Public Distribution System
is there in Mumbai and in other major States. But the whole State of Kerala is
covered with a network of ration shops, a system which is  so  well  built  up
over  a  period  of  time. Can we destroy it? In every two panchayat wards, we
have a ration shop; in thirteen thousand panchayat wards, we have almost 6,500
ration shops in the State of Kerala. (Interruptions).  That  means  every  two
wards of a panchayat have got one ration shop. So, this is a model.

	Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request you that you should visit our State
once and see how this system is working there; a system, which is working  and
which  covers the entire population of the State whether it is sugar, kerosene
or any other item which is  being  distributed,  is  there.  We  have  a  very
beautiful  system  and  if  he  decides to destroy the whole system by his new
Targeted Public Distribution System, then that will be a big tragedy  for  the
whole State.

	The hon. Minister's predecessor is sitting behind him and he knows it.
So,  I  have  a  special  request to the hon. Minister. We are not against the
Targeted Public Distribution System, because those who can afford, let them go
out of the net. But, at the  same  time,  in  the  States  which  are  totally
depending   on   the   Public  Distribution  system,  statutory  rationing  is
prevailing.

	Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was the Prime Minister,  promised  to
the  State  Government  when  statutory  rationing was introduced in the whole
State of Kerala, not in towns or cities  like  in  many  other  parts  of  the
country that sufficient quantity would be given to them.

	Now, we are having the festival season in Kerala.

The festival season is  coming.  Our  Onam  festival  is  coming.  During  the
festival  season,  the Government used to give us an additional quantity. This
has been our rightful claim. But now it is seen  that  all  our  requests  are
falling  on  deaf ears. How can it happen? How can a very affectionate person,
the Minister in charge, ignore it? So, I request him to kindly go through  the
background of the system which is prevailing.... (Interruptions)

MR.  DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Chacko  Ji, one minute. I am quite hopeful that the hon.
Minister is very vigilant and he will take care of  all  the  things  you  are
referring to.

SHRI P.C.  CHACKO :  Thank you very much, Sir.  I am grateful to you and all
the people of Kerala will be grateful to you, Mr.  Deputy-Speaker, Sir.

	When  we  are  discussing  the  Targeted  Public  Distribution System,
certain things come to my mind -  the  procurement,  the  production  and  the
distribution.  These  aspects ought to have a fresh look.  I do not think that
we are doing it on a scientific basis.  

	We  are  grateful to our agricultural scientists who have brought this
country to a near self-sufficiency position  as  far  as  the  foodgrains  are
concerned.  But are we in a position to procure these in a proper manner? When
the procurement season comes, the Government is  always  dilly-dallying  about
the  procurement  price.  Of course, you can import the foodgrains also.

Today morning during the  Question  Hour,  we  were  discussing  that  we  are
importing  500 million tonnes of pulses, spending Rs.800 crore every year! But
we are not prepared to give any incentives to our farmers.  If  we  give  them
some  incentive  after a lot of persuasion or if the decision comes late, that
is not  of  any  use.  The  Minister  should  declare  the  procurement  price
sufficiently in advance and make sufficient stock. Last year, I very well know
that  we  had taken a panicky decision to import wheat. What happened then was
that there was the import and  the  export  of  it.  What  was  the  basis  of
exporting  the foodgrains? It was based on a wrong calculation. Our assessment
about the crop was wrong. Who was responsible for that? I am not  blaming  any
Minister or any particular Government, but when India decided to export wheat,
what  was  the  basis of that decision? That was because of a wrong assessment
about the harvest that year. Then finally we imported some quantity. When  our
stocks were depleted, when our stocks did not reach a sufficient level, we had
taken  a  panicky decision to import. What was the loss in export and what was
the loss in import? How much has this poor country  suffered  because  of  the
faulty policies of the Government? This happened not only with regard to wheat
or rice but also with regard to sugar.

	Sir,  the  Minister  knows  very  well  how  much  money is due to the
sugarcane farmers in Uttar Pradesh, the sugarcane farmers in  Maharashtra  and
the  sugarcane  farmers  in  various parts of the country, from the mills. The
mills are not paying money to the farmers. Shri  Sarpotdar  knows  that  in  a
State  like  Maharashtra,  hundreds of crores of rupees are due to the farmers
and these are not being given. Now they are shifting  their  cultivation  also
because  this  has become uneconomic. If the money is not paid in time, if the
procurement price of sugarcane is not decided in  time,  if  the  farmers  are
suffering,  then a calamitous situation will develop and finally we will again
be forced to import sugar. We  know  how  a  scandalous  and  an  astronomical
situation  developed when sugar import took place in this country a year and a
half back. All of us know that. This kind of a situation shows that we do  not
have  a scientific approach towards the procurement of foodgrains or sugar and
do not give remunerative prices to the farmers. This is one of the problems.

	The Food Corporation of India godowns in the country are  overflowing.
That  is  what  we  are saying, and we are proud of that. But what quantity of
wheat and rice and other food items are being wasted in our  godowns?  I  know
that  the  Ministers  in  charge  of  these  things  know that not less than a
thousand crores of rupees worth of foodgrains  are  being  wasted  because  of
inadequate  facilities  for  stocking  these  foodgrains  in  our godowns. The
quality is being degraded because it is getting wet or  because  they  do  not
have proper arrangements for keeping these foodgrains. This has been happening
because  we  do  not have proper storage facilities. So, even today we are not
able to follow the technological advancement in the field of  procurement  and
stocking of foodgrains on a scientific basis.
	This is the  haphazard  manner  in  which  it  is  done  when  we  are
celebrating  50  years of our Independence. After 50 years we gained a lot; we
achieved a lot. We could produce our foodgrains to our sufficient requirement.
But we are not able to give our farmers their due share. We are  not  able  to
keep  it  properly. At the same time the distribution also is a problem. 

	Now a new thing is coming. This is something which should be discussed
in  a  wider  scale  because now the rations for various items are distributed
through the ration shops. Kerosene also  is  distributed  through  the  ration
shops.  But  what  is  happening?  What  is  the  ration  system or the public
distribution system and the corruption involved? Can anyone of us deny  as  to
how  corrupt  the system is? Most of the kerosene which is distributed through
the ration shops is going to  the  blackmarketeers.  What  is  the  system  of
surveillance?  What is the system to check this? What is the system to monitor
these things?

	I do not think  that  any  effective  system  is  prevailing  in  this
country.  May be, kerosene is going for adulterating petrol or diesel. This is
happening. So the system is decaying and the system is imperfect and it is not
giving the desired results. When the Minister is  announcing  the  schemes  he
should consider these things.

	Now  this  Targeted Public Distribution Scheme is there. Previously it
was a different system. Any new scheme is good for announcement.  But  who  is
analysing  as to how it is affecting the life of the common man ultimately who
is in the long queue before the ration shops? These are certain lacunae in the
system. I am not opposing the system. At the same time,  the  Targeted  Public
Distribution  Scheme  should  not  destroy,  or affect the statutory rationing
which is prevailing in various parts of the country, whether it is cities,  or
some  States  like  Kerala  on  a  universal scale, where it is existing. That
system should not be destroyed. But at the same time we should be able to plug
the loopholes in the system  of  procurement  of  foodgrains  and  keeping  of
foodgrains  and  distribution.  We  should  be able to avoid corruption in the
system and make it as perfect as possible.

	These are some of my suggestions.  I  thank  you  very  much  for  the
time given to me.

SHRI ANADI CHARAN SAHU (CUTTACK):  Mr.  Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I would like to
say just one sentence.  I want to add to Shri Chacko's statement.  In Orissa
the F.C.I.  is selling rice at Rs.  8.77 per kilogram whereas it is available
at Rs.  7 per kilogram outside.  It is a faulty system.  I am only adding to
what Shri Chacko has said.  It is a faulty system being adopted by the F.C.I.



SHRI SEBASTIAN PAUL (ERNAKULAM) :  Hon.  Deputy-Speaker, Sir, at the outset I
am expressing my profound gratitude to your honour for inviting me to make my
maiden speech in this august House.  I am particularly happy that I am called
upon to speak on a subject which is of great significance and relevance as far
as the poor people of this country are concerned.

	As I was listening to he various speeches made by hon.  Members for
the last few days, it has come to light that the Targeted Public Distribution
Scheme which came into force on 1st of June with much fanfare has become the
target of much criticism because it is meant to provide foodgrains to nearly
33 billion people at reduced or concessional prices.  It is a flashing point
in the Common Minimum Programme of the United Front Government.  But, as the
hon.  Prime Minister has admitted in this House, the scheme is fraught with
faults and he has admitted that there were lapses and shortcomings.  After the
assurance given by the hon.  Prime Minister that the faults will be corrected
and the scheme will be streamlined, I have nothing more to add on that point.

	Coming to the situation prevailing in my State, Kerala, I have to
mention a few facts at the risk of repetition before this august House.
Kerala is a model State for running a streamlined and well-oiled public
distribution system as my friend Shri Chacko has just now pointed out.  That
scheme, with a statutory rationing system, is caused to be upset by the
introduction of the new scheme.

	With the advent of this  system,  the  entitlement  of  allocation  to
Kerala is reduced from 24 lakh tonnes to 17.76 lakh tonnes. It is on the basis
of  the  new  scheme of taking the average offtake for the last 10 years. This
calculation has caused a great injustice to the State of Kerala which requires
at least 24 lakh tonnes per  year  to  meet  its  requirements.  Although  the
average  offtake  for  the last few years was 17.76 lakh tonnes due to various
reasons, Kerala is entitled to get 24 lakh tonnes for meeting its requirements
and that was the assurance given to the State when the Chief Ministers and the
Food Ministers met in last July or August. It was decided in that meeting that
the requirement of food deficit States would be met and such States  would  be
given  a  special  consideration while fixing the allotment. But unfortunately
that promise has  not  been  kept  and  Kerala  is  now  receiving  a  reduced
allotment.

	As  is  well  known, Kerala is a food deficit State. It is not because
the people in Kerala are not doing any agricultural operations but because the
Keralites for various reasons and constraints  have  diverted  their  work  to
cultivating  cash  crops. This is benefiting not only the people of Kerala but
also the entire country  because  our  agriculturists  are  earning  the  much
required  and  necessary  foreign exchange for the country through cultivating
cash crops. The per capita availability of foodgrains through local production
in Kerala is only 32 kilograms whereas it is  as  high  as  976  kilograms  in
Punjab. The total requirement of Kerala is 48 lakh tonnes. We cannot meet this
requirement  unless  the  required  allotment  is  given to the State in full,
discarding this impractical method of allocation.

	Another point I want to raise before this House is that the
well-organised and well-knit public distribution system, which can be taken as
a model for the entire country, cannot be permitted to degenerate or get upset
by this method of fixing allotment on an artificial basis of taking the
average for the last ten years.  I would request that the earlier allocation
of 24 lakh tonnes should be maintained or at least, the last year's lifted
quantity of 20.75 lakh tonnes should be allotted to the State at Central Issue
Price.  This is most urgently needed because of the advent of our annual
festival season, that is, Onam which is falling next month.

	I hope that the House and the hon. Minister will understand  that  the
present  allocation  of  17.76  lakh  tonnes is totally inadequate to meet the
requirements of the State which is a food deficit State. Taking  into  account
the  special  circumstances and facts of the situation prevailing in Kerala, I
hope that that Minister will restore the earlier allocation  and  the  promise
given to the State in the last Chief Ministers' Conference will be kept.

	Almost all other points have been covered by the hon. Members in  this
House.  So, I am not repeating all those points. With this request to the hon.
Minister, I once  again  appreciate  and  record  my  gratitude  to  the  hon.
Deputy-Speaker for inviting me to make a speech at the fag end of the day.




={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¨Éä®úä {ÉÉºÉ Eò<Ç xÉÉ¨É ½þèÆ* <ºÉ {É®ú +ÉìxÉ®úä¤É±É ʨÉÊxɺ]õ®ú EòÉä ¦ÉÒ VÉ´ÉÉ¤É nùäxÉÉ
½þè* ¨ÉèÆ +ÉìxÉ®úä¤É±É ¨É訤ɺÉÇ ºÉä Ê®úEò´Éèº]õ Eò°üÆMÉÉ ´Éä {ÉÉÆSÉ-{ÉÉÆSÉ Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ ¨ÉäÆ +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ JÉi¨É
Eò®úäÆ iÉÉÊEò Êb÷¤Éä]õ EòxÉE±ÉÚb÷ ½þÉä VÉÉB*


			... (Interruptions)

 ------



18.28 hrs

MR.  DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Now,  we  resume   the   discussion   regarding   Public
Distribution System. Prof. Rasa Singh Rawat.

PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT (AJMER):



|ÉÉä.®úɺÉÉ ÊºÉƽþ ®úÉ´ÉiÉ (+VɨÉä®ú) :  ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú ÊxÉªÉ¨É 193 Eòä +vÉÒxÉ
ºÉÉ´ÉÇVÉÊxÉEò Ê´ÉiÉ®úhÉ |ÉhÉɱÉÒ EòÉä ºÉÖSÉÉ°ü °ü{É +Éè®ú |ɦÉÉ´ÉÒ ¤ÉxÉɪÉä ®úJÉxÉä Eòä ºÉƤÉÆvÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉä
®ú½þÒ SÉSÉÉÇ Eòä ºÉÆnù¦ÉÇ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉɽþÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò <ºÉ |ÉhÉɱÉÒ EòÉä |ɦÉÉ´ÉÒ ¤ÉxÉɪÉä ®úJÉxÉä Eòä
ʱɪÉä Eòäxpù +Éè®ú ®úÉVªÉ ºiÉ®ú {É®ú +{ÉxÉä +{ÉxÉä ¨ÉÆjÉÉ±ÉªÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉÉÊxÉ]õÊ®úÆMÉ ÊºÉº]õ¨É +iªÉÆiÉ
+ɴɶªÉEò ½þè* +Éè®ú ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ {É®ú ¨É½þÒxÉä ¨ÉäÆ BEò nùÉä ¤ÉÉ®ú ¨ÉÆjÉÒ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ EòÒ +vªÉIÉiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ
ºÉƤÉÆÊvÉiÉ +ÊvÉEòÉÊ®úªÉÉäÆ EòÒ BEò ¤Éè`öEò Eò®úEòä =ºÉEòÒ ¨ÉÉÊxÉ]õÊ®úÆMÉ Eò®ú ±ÉÒ VÉɪÉä ÊEò EòÉèxÉ ºÉä ®úÉVªÉ
EòÒ ÊEòiÉxÉÒ +ɴɶªÉEòiÉÉ ½þè, ÊEòºÉ ®úÉVªÉ EòÉä =ºÉEòÒ +ɴɶªÉEòiÉÉ Eòä +xÉÖºÉÉ®ú {ÉÚÊiÉÇ Eò®ú nùÒ MÉ<Ç ½þè
ªÉÉ xɽþÒÆ, ÊEòºÉ ®úÉVªÉ EòÉä ÊEòiÉxÉÒ JÉÉt ºÉɨÉMÉÒ ={ɱɤvÉ ½þÖ<Ç ªÉÉ xɽþÒÆ +Éè®ú ÊEòºÉ ®úÉVªÉ EòÉä
ʨÉ^Ò EòÉ iÉä±É ªÉÉ ¶ÉEEò®ú ºÉ¨ÉªÉ {É®ú ={ɱɤvÉ ½þÖ<Ç ªÉÉ xɽþÒÆ ªÉÉ ´É½þÉÆ Eòä JÉÉt MÉÉänùÉ¨É ¨ÉäÆ
<iÉxÉÒ ¨ÉÉjÉÉ ½þè ªÉÉ xɽþÒ ªÉÉ ÊVÉºÉ ®úÉVªÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊVÉiÉxÉÒ ¨ÉÉjÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉɨÉOÉÒ VÉÉxÉÒ SÉÉʽþªÉä
lÉÒ, ´É½þ MÉ<Ç ªÉÉ xɽþÒÆ?  ÊVÉºÉ ®úÉVªÉ ¨ÉäÆ iªÉÉè½þÉ®ú +ÉiÉÉ ½þè, iÉ¤É °ü]õÒxÉ ´Éä ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉäVÉäÆMÉä iÉÉä
¤É½þÖiÉ ¤Éc÷Ò ºÉ¨ÉºªÉÉ EòÉ ºÉɨÉxÉÉ Eò®úxÉÉ {Éc÷äMÉÉ*





	={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ MÉÉÆ´É Eòä ÊEòºÉÉxÉ EòÉ ±Éc÷EòÉ ½þÚÆ +Éè®ú OÉɨÉÒhÉ {ÉÊ®ú´Éä¶É
VÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* VÉ¤É MÉÉÆ´É ¨ÉäÆ ®úɶÉxÉ nùÖEòÉxÉ JÉÖ±ÉxÉä EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä 2-3 ÊEò±ÉÉä¨ÉÒ]õ®ú SɱÉEò®ú ´É½þ
MÉÉÆ´É {ÉÆSÉɪÉiÉ ªÉÉ ¨ÉÖJªÉɱɪÉà {ɽþÖÆSÉiÉÉ ½þè VɽþÉÆ {É®ú ®úɶÉxÉ nùÖEòÉxÉ ÊxÉvÉÉÇÊ®úiÉ EòÒ ½þÖ<Ç ½þè iÉÉä
Eò½þÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ¶ÉEEò®ú +Éè®ú MÉä½þÚÆ xɽþÒÆ +ɪÉÉ* <ºÉ iÉ®ú½þ ¨É½þÒxÉä ¨ÉäÆ 3-4 SÉEEò®ú ±ÉMÉÉiÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú
+xiÉiÉÉäMÉi´ÉÉ ´É½þ ÊxÉ®úÉ¶É ½þÉä VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú Ê¡ò®ú BEò ÊnùxÉ VÉ¤É VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä ¤ÉiÉɪÉÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò
¶ÉEEò®ú +É<Ç lÉÒ, JÉi¨É ½þÉä MÉ<Ç ½þè* {ÉÊ®úhÉɨɺ´É°ü{É =ºÉä EòɱÉä ¤ÉÉVÉÉ®ú ºÉä ¶ÉEEò®ú +Éè®ú ʨÉ^Ò EòÉ
iÉä±É JÉ®úÒnùxÉÉ {Éc÷iÉÉ ½þè* =ºÉä +{ÉxÉä PÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ÊSɨÉxÉÒ VɱÉÉxÉä ºÉä ´ÉÆÊSÉiÉ ½þÉäxÉÉ {Éc÷iÉÉ ½þè * ¨Éä®úÉ
+É{ÉEòä ¨ÉÉvªÉ¨É ºÉä ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ ºÉä +xÉÖ®úÉävÉ ½þè ÊEò BäºÉÒ ÊºlÉÊiÉ ºÉä ¤ÉSÉxÉä Eòä ʱɪÉä ºÉ¨ÉÉxÉ Ê´ÉiÉ®úhÉ
|ÉhÉɱÉÒ <ºÉ nùä¶É Eòä MÉ®úÒ¤ÉÒ ®úäJÉÉ ºÉä xÉÒSÉä ®ú½þxÉä ´ÉɱÉäÆ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä VÉÒ´ÉxÉ Eòä ʱɪÉä +ɴɶªÉEò
½þè VÉÉä ºÉ֤ɽþ ºÉä ¶ÉÉ¨É iÉEò ¨ÉVÉnùÚ®úÒ Eò®úEòä +ÉiÉä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú Ê¡ò®ú ÊVÉxÉEòÉä +{ÉxÉÉ {Éä]õ ¦É®úxÉÉ {Éc÷iÉÉ ½þè*
ªÉÊnù =ºÉä JÉÖ±Éä ¤ÉÉVÉÉ®ú ¦ÉÉ´É Eòä ®ú½þ¨ÉÉäEò®ú¨É {É®ú UôÉäc÷ ÊnùªÉÉ VÉɪÉä iÉÉä ¤É½þÖiÉ EòÊ`öxÉÉ<Ç EòÉ ºÉɨÉxÉÉ
Eò®úxÉÉ {Éc÷iÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉʱɪÉä +É{ÉEòä ¨ÉÉvªÉ¨É ºÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ºÉä |ɦÉÉ´ÉÒ ¨ÉÉÊxÉ]õÊ®úÆMÉ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ
SÉɽþÚÆMÉÉ*




[NEXT PAGE]