I would like to say, Mr.  Deputy-Speaker,  Sir,  a  diarchy  is  being
introduced  in this Bill. Kindly go back to 1920 when there was a Constitution
of diarchy in this country and the diarchy did not last long. This  Amendment,
I  may say, definitely will not be in the best interest of the ports of India.
I,  as  a  Chairman-cum-Managing  Director  of  the  Orissa  State  Commercial
Transport  Corporation  had  first-hand  knowledge  about  the  working of the
Paradip port and I was the CIF agent of the Orissa State during  a  particular
period. I know what are the difficulties that a port faces.

	The persons who have brought in this enactment, I would  like  to  say
without casting any aspersion, did not have any idea as to what is a catamaran
and  a  flat  and  as to what is a quay and what is a wharf. All these matters
which have been indicated in this Bill would not go a  very  long  way,  as  a
result of which we would face difficulty.

	Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, let us go back to 1908 when the Port Act  was
enacted  replacing  certain  regulations  of 1855 and 1875. In the Port Act of
1908, the major indicator was to consolidate the enactments relating  to  port
and  port  charges.  It  was  very  brief.  And Section 6 of that Act is quite
relevant. The summary of the Section 6 is, the power to make  port  rules  for
regulating  the  time of leaving or entering the berths, stations, anchorings,
regulating the vessels, fastening, fixing rates for moorings, buoys, etc.


	Kindly  look  at  this  particular  sentence  itself.  How has it been
written there in the law  books?  Whenever  you  are  thinking  of  regulating
tariff, you must think of regulating the movement of the fixtures that will be
there  in  the port. I will not go into the details because it will take a lot
of time.

	What I intend to tell the House  is  that  whenever  an  enactment  is
thought  of, the history of the enactments which had been earlier there should
be thought of. When we thought of enacting  this  amendment,  we  should  have
taken  into consideration the first Act that came into being, that is the Port
Act of 1908 and in amending that Act itself they have taken into consideration
Section 36 where an appointment is made of an authority. There is the question
of appointing an authority.

	In Section 47 of  the  Major  Ports  Act,  there  is  a  provision  of
constituting  an  authority.  Kindly  go  through that. That is the difference
between appointing and constituting. The law makers should be able to find out
what is the difference between the two. Now I would not go into the details of
the Ports Act. But kindly go through the Major Ports Act, 1963. The  objective
also  is very precise. The objective is to make provisions for constitution of
Port Authorities for major ports  and  to  vest  administration,  control  and
management  on  them.  There  should be one authority. As I said earlier, they
have taken into consideration diarchy -- two authorities. One will be a  Board
and the other will be an Authority.

	In this connection, I invite the attention  of  the  hon.  Members  to
Arthashastra   of   Kautilya.  In  Book  II  of  Arthashastra,  Kautilya,  the
Machiavelli of India had always thought of dividing the  people.  He  had  two
types of people in the ports. One was the Controller of Shipping and the other
was  Controller  or Commissioner of Ports. You can go through the Book. I will
not go into the details. He had one person called Controller of Shipping.  The
other person was Commissioner of Ports.

	The Commissioner of Ports was to levy  rates  and  the  Controller  of
Shipping  was  to  take  into account all the fixtures and the destitute ships
that were coming into the port, etc. So there was some sort of a diarchy. I do
not know in those days, say about 2,300 years back or  2,400  years  back,  we
might  be having four or five ports in India and people used to move in a very
leisurely way. I do not know, whether  that  type  of  diarchy  will  ever  be
possible, at present, in India.

SHRI P.C. CHACKO (MUKUNDAPURAM): Who is Kautilya now?

SHRI ANADI  CHARAN  SAHU (CUTTACK): I cannot say that.  Maybe the United Front
Government, for that matter.

	What I would like to point out are the difficulties that  the  persons
who  use the ports will face if this amendment comes into being. First of all,
let us think of the provision which has been the explanatory note itself shows
that it will be for private sector  participation.  If  you  are  thinking  of
private sector participation, in the amendment itself the hon. Minister should
have  indicated what type of structures the private parties will set up in the
ports and what type of tariff this Authority will  impose  for  use  of  those
private party properties by Government.

	The  hon.  Minister  has  indicated  in this Port Act `only for use of
Government properties'. If I have some knowledge about ports or some knowledge
in the legal profession also, I could make out what it intends to  say  and  I
could  not  find  any  mention  of  use  of  private buoys, wharfs or quays by
Government people or some other people. I would like to know what would be the
authority of this Tariff Authority in relation to the tariff to be imposed  by
the private party.

	Now,  take  for example, any port for that matter. Government has lots
of quays, wharfs, moorings, piers and all those things. Say, if hundred rupees
or thousand rupees or a lakh of rupees is the tariff fixed by  this  Authority
then  what  about  equally higher number of things, equally efficient? Say, if
conveyers or say, fork lifts or any type of taking up from the  holds  of  the
ships  may  be  imported  by the private party then what would be the rate for
those equipment and machinery? That has to be indicated in this Act itself.

	Otherwise, it would be very difficult to have two  types  of  working,
one  by  the  Government and one by the private companies. I do not go against
privatisation. It is absolutely necessary but there should be  certain  rules,
certain regulations and certain guidelines to be followed. Otherwise, it would
not  be  possible  to  implement  this  amendment  at  this  stage.  My humble
submission now is, kindly go through some of the  provisions  which  you  have
indicated in this amendment.




={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¸ÉÒ +xÉÉÊnù SÉ®úhÉ ºÉɽþÚ, +MÉ®ú +É{ÉxÉä EòÖUô +Éè®ú ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä +MɱÉä ºÉè¶ÉxÉ
¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉäʱÉB EªÉÉäÆÊEò +¤É |ÉÉ<´Éä]õ ¨É訤ɺÉÇ Ê¤ÉÊVÉxÉèºÉ EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü ½þÉä MɪÉÉ ½þè *


SHRI  ANADI  CHARAN  SAHU (CUTTACK): But I would like to point out some of the
defects.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : You can speak in the next Session.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH): Thank you, Sir, you have said that he will speak  in
the  next  Session.  That  means  this  Bill  will be carried over to the next
Session.




={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +MÉ®ú ½þÉ=ºÉ xÉä EòÉä<Ç ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä +É{É 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¤Éè`ö ºÉEòiÉä
½þèÆ *


SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): It is quite unfortunate that  the  Parliamentary
Affairs  Minister  is  not  here.  The Government is very careless about their
business but it has been agreed that we will work after 6.00 p.m. only because
there is another important Bill in addition to this Ordinance.  Otherwise  the
Government  and  the  fishermen  will be in trouble. The Aquaculture Authority
Bill is  there.  It  has  been  decided  that,  if  necessary,  we  will  work
afterwards.




={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : <ºÉÒʱÉB ¨ÉèÆxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¦ÉÒ ¤Éè`ö ºÉEòiÉä ½þèÆ *


SHRI  RAM  NAIK  (MUMBAI NORTH): When you said, `next Session', I was a little
confused.




={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : =ºÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ VÉÉäc÷ ÊnùªÉÉ ÊEò 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¤Éè`ö ºÉEòiÉä ½þèÆ *
VÉÉä ¦ÉÒ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þÖ+É, Eò¨É ºÉä Eò¨É ¨ÉÖZÉä xɽþÒÆ ¤ÉiÉɪÉÉ MɪÉÉ ÊEò EªÉÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þÖ+É ?


SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{É +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ {É®ú +Êb÷MÉ ®úʽþB * +É{ÉxÉä BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú
VÉÉä Eò½þ ÊnùªÉÉ, =ºÉä Eò½þ ÊnùªÉÉ * +¤É 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ¤Éè`öxÉä EòÉ EòÉä<Ç +ÉèÊSÉiªÉ xɽþÒÆ
½þè 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): This shows the total  callous  attitude  of  the
Government.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : At least, I have not been informed.

SHRI  RAM  NAIK  (MUMBAI  NORTH): The Parliamentary Affairs Minister should be
here. The Government should say something about it.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨Éä®úÉ Mɽþ®úÉ BäiÉ®úÉVÉ ½þè * ʤÉÊVÉxÉèºÉ
Bb÷´ÉÉ<VÉ®úÒ Eò¨Éä]õÒ ºÉä >ð{É®ú ªÉ½þ ºÉnùxÉ ½þè * ªÉ½þ ºÉnùxÉ =ºÉºÉä >ð{É®ú ½þè * +ÉVÉ 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù
¤Éè`öxÉä EòÉ EªÉÉ +ÉèÊSÉiªÉ ½þè ? 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): His speech is not finished. It is  not  the  next
Session.  It  is  after the recess. After the recess, on the same business, he
will be on his legs and nobody else.

SHRI SURESH PRABHU (RAJAPUR): Yes, of course. That is true.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : That is what I said. But still, I have said, even after 6
o' clock, you can sit and pass this Bill.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{ÉxÉä BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú VÉÉä Eò½þ ÊnùªÉÉ, ´É½þ Eò½þ ÊnùªÉÉ *
<ºÉ +ɺÉxÉ EòÉ ¤Éc÷É ¨É½þi´É ½þè * 

Next Session means next Inter-Session. 


VÉ¤É +É{ÉxÉä BEò
¤ÉÉ®ú <ºÉ Ê¤É±É EòÉä xÉèEº]õ ºÉè¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉäxÉä Eòä ʱÉB Eò½þ ÊnùªÉÉ, ´É½þ SÉäªÉ®ú EòÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þè, +¤É
<ºÉä xÉèEº]õ ºÉè¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ VÉÉBMÉÉ *


SHRI HANSRAJ AHIR (CHANDRAPUR):



={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¨ÉèÆxÉä nùÉäxÉÉä ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Eò½þÒ ½þèÆ * +¤É ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þÉ=ºÉ xÉä Eò®úxÉÉ ½þè * 


SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : ªÉä ÊVÉºÉ føÆMÉ ºÉä SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ, {ÉÚ®úä ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä ¨ÉxɨÉÉxÉä føÆMÉ ºÉä
SɱÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ * <ºÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä EòÉ¨É Eò®úxÉä EòÉ EòÉä<Ç iÉ®úÒEòÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þè * +ÉVÉ |ÉÉ<´Éä]õ ¨É訤ɺÉÇ
b÷ä ½þè +Éè®ú +ÆÊiÉ¨É ÊnùxÉ ¦ÉÒ ½þè, <ºÉʱÉB 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¤Éè`öxÉä EòÉ EªÉÉ iÉ®úÒEòÉ ½þè ?


SHRI HANSRAJ AHIR (CHANDRAPUR):



={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¨ÉÖZÉä ¦ÉÒ +¡òºÉÉäºÉ ½þè ÊEò ¨ÉÖZÉä ½þÉ=ºÉ Eòä ¡òèºÉ±Éä EòÉ {ÉiÉÉ xɽþÒÆ ÊEò EªÉÉ
¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þÖ+É lÉÉ * 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI SURESH PRABHU (RAJAPUR):



¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ®úä¶É |ɦÉÖ (®úÉVÉÉ{ÉÖ®ú) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ªÉ½þ ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÒÊ®úªÉºÉ ¨ÉɨɱÉÉ ½þè *
BE´ÉÉ-Eò±SÉ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ, ºÉè¶ÉxÉ ¶ÉÖ¯û ½þÉäxÉä ºÉä {ɽþ±Éä, ½þ¨ÉxÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ºÉä ÊxÉ´ÉänùxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ
+Éè®ú |ÉvÉÉxɨÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ ºÉä ¦ÉÒ Ê¨É±Éä lÉä * +ÉVÉ BE´ÉÉ-Eò±SÉ®ú <Æb÷º]ÅÒVÉ Eòä ¡òɨÉǺÉÇ EòÒ
½þɱÉiÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ JÉ®úÉ¤É ½þè 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)





={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : `öÒEò ½þè, nùäJÉiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò =ºÉä EòèºÉä ʱɪÉÉ VÉÉB ±ÉäÊEòxÉ +¤É iÉÉä |ÉÉ<´Éä]õ
¨É訤ɺÉÇ Ê¤ÉÊVÉxÉèºÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü ½þÉä MɪÉÉ ½þè *


SHRI SURESH PRABHU (RAJAPUR):



¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ®úä¶É |ɦÉÖ (®úÉVÉÉ{ÉÖ®ú) : ±ÉäÊEòxÉ <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ ¦ÉÒ xɽþÒÆ ½þè ÊVɺɺÉä
<ºÉä +ÉVÉ {ÉÉºÉ Eò®úɪÉÉ VÉÉ ºÉEòä * 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, +MÉ®ú 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ½þÉ=ºÉ SɱÉÉBÆMÉä iÉÉä
Ê´É®úÉävÉ-º´É°ü{É ¨ÉèÆ ¤Éɽþ®ú VÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ *





={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ®úäxpù ªÉÉnù´É *


SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : 6.00 ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù +MÉ®ú ºÉnùxÉ SɱÉxÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆ +{ÉxÉä ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ EòÉä
Ê´Énùc÷É xɽþÒÆ Eò°üÆMÉÉ * ¨ÉèÆxÉä ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ. Eòä ºÉnùºªÉÉä EòÉ ¦ÉɹÉhÉ ºÉÖxÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú <xÉEòÉ ¦ÉÒ
ºÉÖxÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ * +MÉ®ú =ºÉä ÊxÉMÉä]õ Eò®úxÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ iÉÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ ÊxÉMÉä]õ Eò®ú nùäMÉä ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ªÉ½þ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ¨ÉÖZÉä
+¨ÉÉxªÉ ½þè * 


SHRI KASHI RAM RANA (SURAT):



¸ÉÒ EòɶÉÒ®úÉ¨É ®úÉhÉÉ (ºÉÚ®úiÉ) : 31 ¨ÉÉSÉÇ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù <ºÉ ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÚ®úä nùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉºÉ ½þÉä
VÉÉBMÉÉ * <ºÉʱÉB +ÉVÉ <ºÉ Ê¤É±É EòÉä {ÉÉºÉ Eò®úxÉÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ +ɴɶªÉEò ½þè * 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): This is about  the  Aquaculture  Authority  Bill
which is very important.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Yes, the Minister wants to say something.

THE  MINISTER OF SURFACE TRANSPORT (SHRI G. VENKATRAMAN TINDIVANAM): I want to
submit one thing. I have nothing to say against the  discussion  by  the  hon.
Members.  But there is one difficulty. I am ready to cooperate with you at any
time. I am submitting that by 4th April, this Ordinance will lapse. Therefore,
let them have a discussion. I am ready to be here.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH): Who told you to promulgate this Ordinance? What  was
the urgency to promulgate this Ordinance? You have done nothing.

SHRI G. VENKATRAMAN TINDIVANAM: Please hear me.

SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): I would like to make it one thing very clear. The
Minister  and  the Government know the business and for the last few days, how
we have been trying to accommodate the business. We sat till 10.00 p.m.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH): We sat the whole night.

SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): We  always  talk  of  Parliamentary  decorum  and
everything.  Sometimes,  we  feel it convenient to our Party purposes. That is
not fair.

	If an item in the List of Business is that urgent which is required to
be passed today even after six o'clock, why  should  the  Minister  feel  that
something  would  happen  to  the  Bill if the Bill is not passed? That is not
fair. What I am trying to  say  is  --  please  let  me  conclude  --  if  the
Deputy-Speaker  allows  the  Private Members' Legislative Business to be taken
up, it must be taken up without encroaching upon the  rights  of  the  private
Members.  After discussing the Private Members' Business, if it is the opinion
of the House to extend  the  time  to  finish  the  Government  Bills  to  get
legitimacy  to  the Ordinance to be completed, fair enough. We are prepared to
cooperate here and it is not that we kill it. But the Minister must come  with
a  specific proposal and desire and the House will consider. It is not that we
are uncertain. We can sit even after six o'clock.

SHRI  G. VENKATARAMAN TINDIVANAM: I never said that. Yesterday in my statement
I mentioned it.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Where is the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs?

SHRI G. VENKATARAMAN TINDIVANAM: I have no objection for the discussion by the
Members. But I have pointed out the difficulty.  I am ready to sit  even after
six o'clock, any time they want to for discussing the Bill.   I am ready here.

SHRI SURESH PRABHU (RAJAPUR): We are not against enlarging of  the  Government
Business. The point is that a proper notice should be given. Such an important
Bill  should not have been made to wait till the last day and should have been
brought much earlier, in advance. We could have discussed it.  (Interruptions)
We have to inform our Members.

SHRI  RAM  NAIK  (MUMBAI  NORTH):  Please  call  the Minister of Parliamentary
Affairs, ask him what the Government wants. Otherwise,  once  the  Members  go
even  the  Government will not be in a position to muster the required quorum.
So, let the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs come and say what the Government
wants to do. We are ready to cooperate.

	The  Aquaculture  Authority  Bill  is  very very important. It must be
passed. But we do not allow the Government to do it this way.




={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : BäºÉÉ ½þè, +¦ÉÒ ½þ¨É |ÉÉ<´Éä]õ ¨É訤ɮú ʤÉVÉxÉèºÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü Eò®ú nùäiÉä ½þèÆ* <xÉ
Ênù ¨ÉÒxÉ ]õÉ<¨É {ÉÉʱÉǪɨÉäÆ]ÅÒ +¡òäªÉºÉÇ Ê¨ÉÊxɺ]õ®ú +É VÉÉiÉè ½þèÆ* 

We will get it clarified. Shri Surendra Yadav.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉÖZÉä BäºÉÉ ±ÉMÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ºÉnùxÉ Eòä
|ÉÊiÉ MÉƦÉÒ®ú xɽþÒÆ ½þè +Éè®ú ¶ÉÉ¨É EòÉä Uô: ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù <ºÉ iÉ®ú½þ ºÉä ʤÉVÉxÉèºÉ EòÉä ]ÅÉÆVÉèE]õ
Eò®úxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉÒ ½þè* <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ ºÉJiÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ ½þè* ªÉÊnù ºÉnùxÉ Uô: ¤ÉVÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¤Éè`öiÉÉ ½þè, iÉÉä
<ºÉEòä Ê´É®úÉävÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉèÆ +xÉÖ{ÉʺlÉiÉ ®ú½þÚÆMÉÉ*

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