Between the planner and the executing agency there is a generation gap. You are not the executing authority at the block level. You might have been the executing authority at the block level earlier. You have passed that time. After forty years, how do you know what people think? If you send me to a district now, I will be a total failure as a Superintendent of Police. I cannot do anything there. If you make me an officer-in-charge of a police station, I will be an utter failure because I had taken training as officer-in-charge of police station only some thirty years before. So, planners should see as to what is happening at the cutting-edge level, at the block level. This has to be taken into account before you think of any proper planning.

With these words, I would say that the approach is good. You have come to the starting blocks. Let us get to the first prize. Let us touch the tape in a proper manner by proper moto poser in shape of investment, motivation and involvement.

SHRI SUDHIR GIRI (CONTAI): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the Approach Paper to the Ninth Five Year Plan which has been submitted by the Planning Commission.

Planning is a political process of a society for the development of all its components. It is an instrument for the arrangement of resources of the society to advance development to the greatest extent possible. The process also involves distribution of produce in the basic fashion desired by the planners. The objective of the planning is that the State shall try to promote the welfare of the people by securing and protecting, as efficiently as it may, the social order in which justice, social, economic and political, shall inform all the institutions of national life.

On the basis of this approach, I emphasize here, the word, `people'. I mean by `people', all the people of a country and not those people who are capable of protecting themselves, who are in a position to amass wealth because they have their in-built capability which can save them from all dangers. So, the masses of the people are included. The Scheduled caste people, the Scheduled tribe people, other backward communities and minorities are taken together when we approach a Plan.

Sir, it has been said that the Plan has to do justice to these people whom I have referred to; justice, social, economic and political. But have we actually meted out justice to these people who really need the help of the State? Without the State's intervention, these people cannot maintain their minimum integrity insofar as the basic minimum needs are concerned. So, what have we learnt from the Eighth Five Year Plan and the Plans before that Plan? In the Eighth Five Year Plan, priority was given to employment generation, containment of population growth, universalisation of primary education, safe drinking water, achievement of self-sufficiency in food and production of surpluses for exports, strengthening of infrastructure to sustain growth. If we analyse these things or if we take up one by one, then we will find that still there are more than 50 per cent people who are illiterate. It is, today, said that half of the total population of the illiterate on the earth live in India. So, whatever attempts have been made, have been made at the behest of some planners, some philosophers and some social scientists. But actually the real benefit has not accrued to the people who deserved it.

So, the objective of the Ninth Plan has been set out. The National Development Council met in January, 1997. They were unanimous in giving importance to the fact that the GDP growth rate should be seven per cent and the growth rate in agriculture should be 4.5 per cent per annum.

Again, the United Front has evolved a Common Minimum Programme and on the basis of the Common Minimum Programme and the Chief Ministers' Conference gave some suggestions.

The other Chief Ministers also have given some suggestions. On the basis of those suggestions and the unanimous proposal of the National Development Council, the Ninth Five Year Plan has to be emphasised on nine items. They have also said that the employment generation should be given the first priority. A stable price structure should be maintained. Nutritional security for all should be provided in the Plan. Safe drinking water, primary health care, opporunity for universal primary education, shelter, and connectivity development should be given priority.

Further, control of population, environmental security through mobilisation and participation of people at all levels have also been given priority. Empowerment of women, the Scheduled Castes, the Scheduled Tribes, the minorities, and other backward communities have also been given priority. Development of Panchayati Raj throughout the country has been stressed upon. Efforts for self-reliance would also be made.

Sir, let me first analyse the formulations, and why the formulations should be given priority. Firstly, priority for agricultural and rural development with a view to generating adequate productive employment and eradicating poverty has been stressed. Productive employment requires purchasing power to increase. It is because without increasing the purchasing power of the rural areas, and the people of the urban areas, the internal market cannot be expanded and if the internal market is not expanded, then we have to depend, to a great extent, upon the markets of other countries. But with the infrastructure, with the old technology, and with the other factors as are presently existing in India, we cannot compete with the highly industrialised States. Therefore, we shall not be in a position to capture the markets of others. So, we have to increase the purchasing power of our people. The big landlords should be divested of the land holdings. It is because the land holdings lead to mass poverty. A vast chunk of land is there. It cannot be fruitfully utilised unless the big landlords are divested of their property rights by having a ceiling on property. Then only the poor people would be in a position to have lands for cultivation purposes.

I, therefore, suggest that land reform measures should be adopted. Although it has been pointed out in the Plan documents that land reforms should be taken up, we find, there is no word of total land reforms in the Paper. In our country, we find, big landlords are holding big areas of land. If those lands cannot be divested and distributed among the poor people, we cannot achieve the target. So, internal expansion of market also depends upon the land divestment and distribution.

Small and cottage industry should also be developed. Areas of investment in agriculture should be clearly analysed and investment quantum should also be increased. It has been said that the growth rate of the economy with stable prices will be accelerated. But we find that the Government may come forward to increase the prices of petroleum products which would give rise to a chain reaction in the price field. The Government should take care of this properly. Otherwise increasing price effects will hit the people too much. For holding the price line stable, the Government should come forward to fix up the prices of minimum required goods by the people. If the prices of at least those essential commodities are fixed, then the people will be in a position to have those minimum needed articles at the fixed price. Economic processes should also be manoeuvred in such a way that the prices do not go beyond the reach of the common people.

I would point out that there exist regional disparities and these regional disparities exist because of the handling of the economic affairs by the Centre in a manner which does not favour removal of the regional imbalances. I would, therefore, urge upon the Government to take suitable economic measures so that the regional imbalances are removed.

Sir, it has been said that the basic minimum services of safe drinking water will be provided. This programme has been in operation since the previous Government took these measures. But the allotment of funds in these sectors has not been properly utilised in some States and though some other States have utilised them properly but the quantum was so poor that they could not cope with the requirement. So, I would urge upon the Government to take into consideration the fact that the State Governments which suffer from financial limitation and the States which are actually willing to implement the projects sincerely should be provided with necessary funds for overcoming this situation. There are so many villages which are deprived of the drinking water facility. Those villages should be taken into account properly and they should be provided with adequate drinking water.

Sir, people in general and especially the people in rural areas are not aware of the minimum health facilities. There should be a plan and emphasis should be given to this Plan that the minimum health facilities are provided to the rural people. It has been stated that universal primary education should be given priority. I also support it because without universal education, health consciousness cannot be grown and cannot be preserved. People's health care cannot be taken proper care of, if the masses are deprived of the basic minimum education.

Many people, especially in the rural areas are deprived of shelter. Even in the urban areas, there are poor people who live on the footpaths and in the streets. They are deprived of the minimum shelter. So the Government should come forward and make an accurate estimate of the shelterless people, both in the rural as well as urban areas, so that at least they can be given some roof on their heads to live, at least at night.

Furthermore, the villages in the rural areas are far flung. They are not connected by roads and there are many villages which cannot communicate with other villages or the outside world when there is a crisis like floods, etc. So we should see that connectivity and expansion of the connectivity, especially in the rural areas should be given priority.

I would urge upon the Govenment that whether it is production or whether it is health care, etc. the benefit may be given to the people.

The population growth or the population explosion rate is so high that the fruits of production made so laboriously are devoured by their. So, the basic population growth can be minimised if the basic education is given to the masses, if they are properly educated about their health hazards, if the poverty is eradicated in the rural and urban areas and if they are provided with employment opportunities. And for this purpose, if a larger provision of funds is made for their benefit, then the population explosion growth can be reduced. Furthermore, if we wish to make the people conscious of the population growth danger, then they have to be given education properly so that they may be conscious of the population growth danger.

It has been said that the priority would be given for the empowerment of women. It is a good suggestion. And they have rightly stressed the point. We also vehemently support it. For the purpose of empowerment of women we have to see that the representation of women in the Legislatures at least should be ensured. In West Bengal, in the Panchayat systems, women are represented at a particular rate.

Sir, it has been stated in the Plan document that the participation of people is necessary. How will they make it obligatory? We want that the participation at the grassroot level should also be ensured. Not only that but we also want that the Plan should be prepared from below and not from above. The present system is that the Plan is prepared by the people from above and it is imposed upon the people at the grassroot level. This does not match with the requirement of the people. So, I think, the priority should be given to making of the Plans by the grassroot people so that they can participate in the implementation of these Plans effectively.

It had been stated that self-reliance would be given the priority. How can this proposal be implemented? This proposal can be implemented effectively if we develop technology.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

SHRI SUDHIR GIRI (CONTAI): Sir, I am coming to the conclusion.

Technology development, as has been done in other countries, should be made here also. I have already mentioned that internal market expansion is necessary for this purpose. More sustainable advantages should be given to the middle-class people so that they can save more for the purpose of investment in different areas. At least for the purpose of investment in industry and agriculture, various taxes should not have been imposed on the weaker sections of the people. Moreover, development of horticulture, dairying and animal husbandry should also be given top priority. For the purpose of rural development, Panchayat Raj institutions should be developed and we have been insisting on this proposal for a long time. Although some States have been aware of this and the Constitution itself has been amended suitably so that these States do justice to the people by resorting to Panchayat elections and Panchayat Raj system, there are many States which lag behind.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude now.

SHRI SUDHIR GIRI: I am concluding. Many States have been lagging behind.

As regards rural development, I would insist that besides the Panchayat Raj institutions, the IRDP should also be given priority. Instead of individual approach, group approaches are necessary. Monitoring system should also be strengthened.

As regards TRYSEM, I would say that the poor's skill would be enhanced by this Scheme but credit should also flow to them at easy conditions.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat now.

SHRI SUDHIR GIRI: Marketing facilities should also be extended. Group Insurance Scheme should also be provided to them.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Sudhir Giri, please give the floor to other speakers also.

SHRI SUDHIR GIRI: Further, wasteland development programmes should be forcefully implemented. The poor people should be given the share of the development of wasteland because there are so much of wasteland in the country that if the poor people are given the share of it, they will definitely develop these lands. Also, agrarian poverty will come down and production in agriculture would increase.

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is your last sentence.

SHRI SUDHIR GIRI: Sir, I am going to conclude. This is my last paragraph.

I have already mentioned about land reform measures, but one point I have left behind, that is, the means of eradicating poverty, removing class barrier, terminating caste barrier and uplifting humanity. Total land reforms should be adhered to achieve all these objectives. For this purpose, ceiling laws should be there.

(Col. Rao Ram Singh in the Chair)

Those who are land tillers and barghadars, should be given credit on the basis of their patta which they have got from the Land Development Authority or the Government. Records should be prepared.

Furthermore, as regards the industrial production, I would say that the industrial development should be pro-people. I mean to say that such industries should be developed which are not merely export-oriented, but which are pro-people oriented because people can get employment, if such industries are developed. For this purpose, competitiveness should also be there and village and small-scale industries should be given much importance. Scientific and technological development should also be there and industrial research and development programmes should be implemented with due respect.

I would like to make another two points and then I will conclude my speech. For the purpose of urban infrastructure, there is a proposal that private companies may be invited in this field. (Interruptions).

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Sudhir Giri, please conclude because there are a number of other speakers who want to speak and the time now is very limited.

SHRI SUDHIR GIRI: I17 would say only two sentences. As far as the urban development is concerned, urban infrastructure should be made and given priority. Slum improvement measures are to be taken immediately and water supply schemes should also be enforced.

Further, in our rural areas, there are tubewells which have been turned into saline water. I would, therefore, suggest that the Government should take resort to the development programme in such a way that the saline water may be converted into sweet water. Those plants should be implemented without further delay.

With these few words, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to participate in the discussion.

SHRI SURESH PRABHU : Mr. Chairman, Sir, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to participate in the discussion. I think the time will be enough to cover the Ninth Five Year Plan in five years.

I am not going to paint a gloomy or a rosy picture because I am not an artist like the Planning Commission is. But I, being not even a good appreciative of art, am going to just look at the painting as it is put before us. I am not very charmed but rather alarmed by the situation as it is portrayed by the Ninth Plan Approach Paper.

We have been hearing for the last six years or rather a little more than that of New Economic Policy which has been ushered in our country. They are also thinking and talking about liberalisation and globalising our economy. Then, in that context, we are also vigorously following a process of planning. I would really like to know whether these two are compatible. What is the relevance of planning in this whole process in which they are asking all different types of forces to come in? The market will determine the roles of various institutions as to what should be produced and at what price it should be sold. Then, that really brings us to this very question of the relevance of planning and in this modern thinking that the Government has ushered us into.

Sir, this relevance becomes more critical when we really appraise the last Five Year Plan, the Plan which incidentally coincided with the New Economic Policy that the previous Government talked about. The attainments of this Plan, I am sorry to say, are really very deplorable. In fact, nobody should really take any credit or should not be very happy about what has been really said in the Eighth Five Year Plan.

All the targets which were specified for infrastructure and social sectors have really fallen short of expectations. The inflation has increased in the same period. I think, the inflation has also helped the Planning Commission to portray a better picture of attainment of targets in certain areas.

The important issue that I think the Minister must tell us about is the relevance of planning and the role of State in the new economic policy, whether the State is going to play the role which it has played in the last 50 years in India and whether it is going to play the role of intervention. If the State intervention is going to be there, what is the role of market? How the market forces and State intervention are going to work towards the common objective is something which I think the Government would like to enlighten us about. This is also an important year of planning. We had signed an agreement with the GATT and now with the World Trade Organisation. We have really agreed on certain commitments to these multilateral agencies and to various other countries. One of the commitments pertains to reduction of customs duty. Probably, if we are going to reduce customs duties over a period of time, then we will also have to reduce excise duties to keep our domestic industry alive. Of course, right now, they are reducing customs duties faster than reducing excise duties. It is a different question altogether. If we presume that we are going to reduce our customs duty to keep at par with our commitment and also reduce excise duties to keep our domestic industry alive, from where are we going to raise these resources that we are talking about? On the one side, there is an international commitment given to WTO and on the other side, there is a requirement of raising massive resources to meet this new Plan target of the Ninth Five Year Plan. I fail to understand how he is going to work out these two things. I think that the Government must enlighten us on this issue, about how they are going to raise these massive resources keeping in conformity with our commitment to the WTO. There is hardly any reference to WTO in the Ninth Five Year Plan, But I think that the whole planning process has to be within the parameters of having agreed to do certain things within next five years' time.