SHRI G.L. KANAUJIA (KHERI): It is only a notice.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Sir, obviously a meaning has to be given to every word in the rule. ...(Interruptions)

The word used is `made' a motion. There is no definition of the word `made'. It is not using the word `move'. A notice of the motion has been given. You have admitted the notice of the motion and today's agenda paper reads that so and so to move the following. (Interruptions) Does he make a motion? (Interruptions) Wait a minute. Why are you in a hurry? I am arguing a point.

Sir, does he make a motion before moving or does he make a motion after moving? This is the issue. I would humbly submit to you to please hear us and decide the question. Does he make a motion before moving or does he make a motion after moving. I humbly submit that if he has `made' the motion before moving, then Rule 339 is attracted. If he has `made' the motion only after moving, then, perhaps, their point is right that Rule 339 is not attracted.

Sir, what is the meaning of the word `made' in the context of the word `move'? My submission is this. There is no definition, there is no ruling. Let us, therefore, go by first principles. How does one move a motion? You move a motion once you formulate a motion, satisfy the conditions of Rule 186 and give a notice. My submission is, when a Member of this House formulates a motion in accordance with Rule 186, gives a notice and the Speaker admits that notice, the motion is `made'. (Interruptions)

SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN (MUMBAI - NORTH EAST): No.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, this is my submission. What is his problem? He is not giving the ruling.

Therefore, the motion is made. A motion which is made can either be moved or not moved. Let me repeat that. A motion which is made can either be moved or not moved. If the motion is not made at all, where is the question of moving an unmade motion? You have to make something and then move it. You have to make a motion. The motion is made and if the motion is made, my humble submission is that Rule 339 is attracted and he cannot withdraw the motion without the leave of the House. If what they say is correct, then Rule 339 would have read that a Member who has moved a motion shall not withdraw the same by the leave of the House. It says that a Member who has `made' a motion shall withdraw the same by the leave of the House. So, I would humbly request you to give your earnest consideration. That is my submission.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sympathise with my good friend Shri Chidambaram. He is trying to tell about law to them who are the most lawless outfit. (Interruptions) I sympathise with Shri Jaswant Singh. (Interruptions)

SHRI JASWANT SINGH (CHITTORGARH): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think he will yield. I have risen only because my good friend Somnathji has made a reference to me and only to make one observation that the Outstanding Parliamentarian of 1996 is being outstandingly obstructionist and outstandingly obstreperous. This is a reflection of his frustration. (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, I have no manner of doubt that Shri Jaswant Singh was very sincere when he congratulated me yesterday. (Interruptions) And so many of my friends in the BJP, they so are so nice.

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): Sir, it goes to prove that he is `outstanding'.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, so many of them came to me and I cannot really express myself the great affection that was shown by all of them. I deeply cherish that, all my life, I shall.

But here is a question on which I am trying to sympathise with my friend Shri Jaswant Singh. All the stridency has gone today. Now, the Leader of the Opposition, maybe, I say contempt of the House, how has he now been despatched to Lucknow to be the advisor there? (Interruptions)

Sir, many things can happen. I do not know because all sorts of immoral, unethical... (Interruptions) and apolitical combinations are coming up. I was only reading Shri Jaswant Singh's very well drafted motion. Nobody can question his expertise. Now the whole basis of this motion is in the text of so called chaos, anarchy and destruction. Now, today there is withdrawal of the motion which means there is no anarchy, there is no chaos and there is no destruction. He has explained very thoroughly the so called factual aspects... (Interruptions). His explanation did not satisfy you. Therefore, you persisted with this motion. You persuaded the hon. Speaker also by your cogent arguments that there was a case and the hon. Speaker was kind enough to admit it. Now, therefore, please have a moral courage and the political honesty to say that there is no chaos, anarchy and destruction even before your Government has come... (Interruptions).

SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN (MUMBAI - NORTH EAST): That you have to tell to your Home Minister. It is the Home Minister's comment... (Interruptions)

SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): Sir, does it mean that we are discussing the motion? Sir, I am on point of order. Only the rules are being discussed. Sir, how can you allow him?... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): You say that there was nothing wrong in the conduct of the Governor... (Interruptions)

PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT (AJMER): Please do not mislead the House... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Kindly read the language... (Interruptions). The objection was taken to the statement of the Governor that he has spoken to the Prime Minister. Now you have no objection and therefore there is no reason for the recall of the Governor. We saw on the TV last night... (Interruptions)< /p>

SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): Sir, he is going beyond rules. How can he go beyond rules? He should try to follow the rules.

SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN (MUMBAI - NORTH EAST): At least follow the rules for a day.

SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): Follow the rules at least for one day, at least today, at least this hour, at least this moment!... (Interruptions).

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): I do not know whether after six months their turn will at all come or not. They are still hoping. They do not know that she is not so naive to give up that post after six months. Therefore, in your anxiety to form an unprincipled coalition there... (Interruptions). Sir, on that basis this House has been taken for a ride. They are welcome to withdraw this motion but my only request is that this House should not countenance in certain areas. I do not expect such unsavoury behaviour from them. But the House cannot be taken for a ride. Let them withdraw the motion but let them admit that there was no chaos and anarchy.

MR. SPEAKER : It is a very interesting point being raised. I am really very happy.

SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI):

¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉÖ¹É¨ÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ (nùÊIÉhÉ Ênù±±ÉÒ): +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨Éä®úÉ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÉ |É¶xÉ ªÉ½þ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä °ü±ºÉ +É¡ò |ÉÉäºÉÒVÉºÉÇ Eòä ¨ÉÖiÉÉÊ¤ÉEò EòÉä<Ç ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ SÉÉ®ú º]õäVÉ ºÉä ½þÉäEò®ú MÉÖVÉ®úiÉÉ ½þè* {É½þ±ÉÒ º]õäVÉ iÉ¤É ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè VÉ¤É EòÉä<Ç ºÉnùºªÉ +É{ÉEòÉä xÉÉäÊ]õºÉ nùäiÉÉ ½þè* nùÚºÉ®úÒ º]õäVÉ ´É½þ ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè VÉ¤É +É{É =ºÉEòÒ Bb÷Ê¨ÉÊºÉÊ¤ÉÊ±É]õÒ Êb÷ºÉÉ<b÷ Eò®úEòä, +MÉ®ú ´É½þ Bb÷Ê¨ÉÊºÉ¤É±É ½þÉäxÉä ±ÉÉªÉEò ½þè iÉÉä =ºÉEòÉä Bb÷Ê¨É]õ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ* iÉÒºÉ®úÒ º]õäVÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉnùºªÉ JÉc÷ä ½þÉäEò®ú ¨ÉÚ´É Eò®úiÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ¨ÉÚ´É Eò®úxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ½þÉ=ºÉ EòÒ |ÉÉ{É]õÒÇ ¤ÉxÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè* =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉnù =ºÉ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ Eòä nùÉä ½þ¸É ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉä ½þèÆ ªÉÉ iÉÉä =ºÉ {É®ú SÉSÉÉÇ ½þÉä VÉÉB, SÉSÉÉÇ ½þÉäxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ´ÉÉäÊ]õÆMÉ Eò®úÉxÉÒ ½þÉä iÉÉä ´ÉÉäÊ]õÆMÉ Eò®úÉ ±ÉäÆ ªÉÉ ¨ÉÚ´É®ú Ê´Énùc÷É Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þä iÉÉä ½þÉ=ºÉ EòÒ ±ÉÒ´É ºÉä Ê´Énùc÷É Eò®úä*

+vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ªÉ½þ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ +¦ÉÒ iÉÒºÉ®úÒ º]õäVÉ {É®ú ½þè* VÉºÉ´ÉÆiÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ xÉä xÉÉäÊ]õºÉ ÊnùªÉÉ* +É{ÉxÉä Bb÷Ê¨ÉÊºÉÊ¤ÉÊ±É]õÒ Êb÷ºÉÉ<b÷ Eò®úEòä BEò °üÊ±ÉÆMÉ nùÒ* ÊVÉºÉ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉEòÉä Bb÷Ê¨É]õ ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú +¤É iÉÒºÉ®úÒ º]õäVÉ Eòä Ê±ÉB ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ±ÉMÉÉ ½þè* Ê±Éº]õ ¨ÉäÆ ÊVÉºÉ iÉ®ú½þ ºÉä ªÉ½þ ½þè, ªÉÊnù =ºÉEòÒ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉÉ {Égø ±ÉäÆ,

Shri Jaswant Singh and Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee to move the Following:-

+ÉMÉä =ºÉEòÒ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉÉ Ê±ÉJÉÒ ½þè* +MÉ®ú VÉºÉ´ÉÆiÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ <ºÉ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ EòÉä ¨ÉÚ´É Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉnù ½þ]õxÉä EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä Ê´Énùc÷É EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ +ÉBMÉÒ, ½þÉ=ºÉ EòÒ ±ÉÒ´É ±ÉäxÉä EòÒ +É´É¶ªÉEòiÉÉ {Éc÷äMÉÒ* +É{É E´Éä¶SÉxÉ {ÉÖ]õ Eò®úäÆMÉä, ½þÉ=ºÉ nùä iÉÉä Ê´Énùc÷É ½þÉäMÉÉ, ´É®úxÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÉ* iÉÒºÉ®úÒ º]õäVÉ {É®ú VÉºÉ´ÉÆiÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ xÉä ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ, EªÉÉäÆÊEò =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÊ®úÊºlÉÊiÉ Ê¤É±ÉEòÖ±É xÉ<Ç ÊxÉÊ¨ÉÇiÉ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
<ºÉÊ±ÉB =x½þÉäÆxÉä ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ÊEò ¨ÉÖZÉä ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉÚ´É xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úxÉÉ ½þè* EòÉä<Ç ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉÚ´É ½þÖB Ê¤ÉxÉÉ ½þÉ=ºÉ EòÒ |ÉÉ{É]õÒÇ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉxÉ ºÉEòiÉÉ, ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉÚ´É ½þÖB Ê¤ÉxÉÉ Ê´Énùc÷É EòÒ º]õäVÉ xÉ½þÒÆ +É ºÉEòiÉÒ* <ºÉ EòÉ®úhÉ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ iÉÒºÉ®úÒ º]õäVÉ {É®ú b÷èb ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ, <ºÉ {É®ú SÉÉèlÉÒ º]õäVÉ EòèºÉä +É ®ú½þÒ ½þè* ¤ÉÉ®ú-¤ÉÉ®ú ÊxÉªÉ¨É 339 (2) EòÉ ½þ´ÉÉ±ÉÉ ÊSÉnù¨¤É®ú¨É VÉÒ nùä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ nùä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú Eò½þ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ÊEò Ê´Énùc÷É ÊEòªÉÉ VÉÉBMÉÉ* Ê´Énùc÷É EòÒ º]õäVÉ ½þÒ xÉ½þÒÆ +É<Ç* ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉÚ´É ½þÉäiÉÉ, =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉnù VÉºÉ´ÉÆiÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ Eò®úiÉä iÉÉä Ê´Énùc÷É EòÒ º]õäVÉ +ÉiÉÒ* ªÉ½þ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ iÉÒºÉ®úÒ º]õäVÉ {É®ú b÷èb ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ ½þè, EªÉÉäÆÊEò VÉºÉ´ÉÆiÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ xÉä ¨ÉÚ´É xÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉ {É®ú ÊEòºÉÒ iÉ®ú½þ EòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÒ* <ºÉ {É®ú Ê´Énùc÷É EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ +É ºÉEòiÉÒ* ªÉ½þ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ªÉ½þÒÆ b÷èb ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉ {É®ú ÊEòºÉÒ iÉ®ú½þ EòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ EòÒ <VÉÉVÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ nùÒ VÉÉ ºÉEòiÉÒ* ªÉ½þ ¨Éä®úÉ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÉ |É¶xÉ ½þè*

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): You tell us what you want. What do you want?

MR. SPEAKER : I think it is enough. I do not think I need many arguments. I am sorry to say that. But I think enough arguments have been made.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES (NALANDA):

¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇÆb÷ÒVÉ (xÉÉ±ÉÆnùÉ): +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÚ´É, ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ´ÉMÉè®ú½þ EòÒ ¤É½þºÉ ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ VÉÉ>ðÆMÉÉ, xÉ ½þÒ ÊEòºÉÒ ÊxÉªÉ¨É EòÒ iÉ®ú¡ò VÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ +Éè®ú xÉ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò ¤É½þºÉ Uôäc÷xÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò +´ÉºÉ®ú´ÉÉnù Eò½þÉÆ ½þè* <xÉ ºÉÉ®úÒ SÉÒVÉÉäÆ {É®ú ¤É½þºÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò°üÆMÉÉ*
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
¨ÉèÆ =ºÉ {É®ú Eò¦ÉÒ ¦ÉÒ Eò½þ ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þÚÆ, +¦ÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò½þÚÆMÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ Eòä´É±É BEò ½þÒ |É¶xÉ +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä ®úJÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ªÉ½þ |ÉºiÉÉ´É ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú ½þè
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
¨Éä®úÉ ºÉ¨ÉÉVÉ´ÉÉnù +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ {É®ú ÊxÉ¦ÉÇ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* +É{ÉEòä {ÉènùÉ ½þÉäxÉä Eòä {É½þ±Éä ºÉä ¨ÉèÆ ºÉ¨ÉÉVÉ´ÉÉnùÒ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{É VÉÉä ¦ÉÒ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ nùäÆ =ºÉEòä {É½þ±Éä ¨ÉèÆ BEò |É¶xÉ +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä ®úJÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨Éä®úÉ |É¶xÉ <iÉxÉÉ ½þÒ ½þè ÊEò +ÉVÉ Eòä ÊnùxÉ <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É Eòä ºÉÉlÉ nùÉä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä xÉÉ¨É VÉÖc÷ä ½þèÆ* ªÉä +MÉ®ú ¨ÉÉèVÉÚnù xÉ ½þÉäiÉä iÉÉä <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ EªÉÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ?
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
<ºÉ {É®ú +É{É ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ VÉ´ÉÉ¤É nùÒÊVÉB, {É½þ±Éä +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ EòÉä nùäxÉä nùäÆ* +MÉ®ú EòÉä<Ç ¦ÉÒ |ÉºiÉÉ´ÉEò ÊVÉºÉEòä xÉÉ¨É {É®ú |ÉºiÉÉ´É ½þè, ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ |ÉºiÉÉ´É {Éä¶É ½þÉäxÉä Eòä {É½þ±Éä xÉ½þÒÆ +ÉiÉÉ ½þÉä iÉÉä =ºÉEòä |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ EªÉÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè? <ºÉ |É¶xÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ +É{É VÉÉä ¦ÉÒ ÊxÉªÉ¨É EòÉ Ê´É¶±Éä¹ÉhÉ Eò®úxÉä VÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ <ºÉ ¨ÉÖqä EòÉä ¨ÉqäxÉVÉ®ú ®úJÉEò®ú +{ÉxÉÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ nùäÆ*

MR. SPEAKER : Thank you. I think this discussion is enough on this issue. I will come to other issues. I think we have discussed enough. I must listen to Shri G. M. Banatwalla.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): Sir, in addition to what Shri Chidambarm said, I will point out one thing and you may give the ruling...(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : I would like to listen to you Shri Banatwalla.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI):

¸ÉÒ VÉÒ. B¨É. ¤ÉxÉÉiÉ´ÉÉ±ÉÉ ({ÉÉäxxÉÉxÉÒ) : +É{É ºÉÖxÉäÆMÉä iÉÉä JÉÖ¶É ½þÉäÆMÉä*
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

MR. SPEAKER : What is this? He is a very senior Member.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): In addition to what the hon. Minister Shri Chidambaram has placed before the House, in addition to those rules, I have also to draw your attention to another rule 176 (1). And the language of that rule is very clear. However, before I read it and before I conclude, my submissions must be heard with patience. Rule 176 (1) says:

"A member in whose name a resolution stands on the list of business shall..."

SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN ( INDORE): It is not a resolution...(Interruptions) I am on a point of order. That should not be allowed...(Interruptions)

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): It is a motion...(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Shri Pramod Majahan, you leave it to me. I know my job. You do not have to tell me. Have some patience.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): Let me complete my submission. What is this?...(Interruptions) It says: "A member in whose name a resolution stands on the list of business shall, except when he wishes to withdraw it," the word used is "withdraw", "when called upon, move the resolution..."

So, the question is not of making or moving. The question is very clear here that he does not move means he is trying to withdraw it. Withdrawal will need the consent of the House. So, this is very clear that except when he wishes to withdraw, he must move it. So, when he does not move it, it means he wishes to withdraw it. And that withdrawal will require the consent of the House.

However, Sir, I would like you not to be so strict here also because in the meanwhile a lot of things have happened.

... (Expunged as ordered by the Chair) ...(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: We are on a legal matter. Please confine to the rule.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : I am not allowing it. I will go through the record.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I would tell you not to be very strict with this particular rule. The question is that if the House does not allow the withdrawal of the motion and if the mover does not move the motion, then a deadlock will come up...(Interruptions) Therefore, in good grace, let them now be excused. The opportunistic coalition Government that they are looking for is because of... (Expunged as ordered by the Chair) I would like to say that.

MR. SPEAKER : I have heard enough. Let me give the ruling now.

JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): Sir, I want to draw your attention to Chapter XIII of the Rules of Procedure which relates to Private Members' Resolutions. The procedure in Chapter XIII of the Rules of Procedure commencing from Rule 170 up to Rule 176 which had been referred to by the hon. Members relates to how on a Private Members' day the resolutions would come forward before the House; how that issue should be taken up and at what point of time the speech would be given. It is under Rule 176. It is in relation to a speech delivered on the Private Members' Resolution. It is not at all in respect of the Motion.

Rule 339 has also been referred to. This has been pointed out...(Interruptions) Kindly bear with me for a minute. Sir, you have heard the most illogical and fallacious submissions of Shri Chidambaram whereby he wanted to converted the present into the past. Rule 339 expressly uses the word "made". "Made" means, it is an act done earlier to it. It must be moved in the House. That is the first submission. In Rule 339, please note that the words used are "has made". "Made" means that before that, he must move it in the House; the resolution is tabled; put before the House and then it is made. Then the question of withdrawal arises... (Interruptions) Here, they want to have a child without a marriage. They want to have a child even without engagement. This is most fallacious...(Interruptions). I would like to point out that Shri Banatwalla can have a Burkha marriage. Under the Muslim law, Burkha marriage is permissible. But how can Shri Chidambaram have it? Shri Chidambaram cannot have a Burkha marriage...(Interruptions)

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): Sir, it should not go on record. An ex-Judge is saying like this...(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : I will go through the record.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Well, I thank Shrimati Sushma Swaraj for solving another problem...

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Please listen to me. She solved the problem by pointing out that the question comes when the matter becomes the property of the House. The same thing was raised by Justice Lodha the other day, I think, yesterday, perhaps. So, the rule is very clear on this. Please listen to me. I am dealing with a very serious thing. Section 340, sub-clause (4) of the Manual on Business and Procedure says that once a motion set down in the Agenda is moved, but not till then, it becomes the property of the House. So, that is a very clear-cut thing. So, I do not think I have to give any ruling on that.

As far as Rule 339 is concerned, read with Rules 184 and 185, I will confine to that. I must be very grateful to the House. It was a very very enlightened debate on a very important issue of interpretation of the rule, particularly the Finance Minister made a very strong point.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : I was even tempted to agree with him. But I may be able to clarify the question of what is the meaning of "made" and what is the meaning of "moved." I think it is very clear that under rule 185 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, a notice is to be given. Then, under Rule 184 of the Rules of Procedure, a motion is made. Now, the notice having been given in this case and admitted, the motion has to be made. How? By moving? Unless it is moved, it cannot be made. I think that is a very, simple interpretation. So, I have no other way except to go to the next item of the Agenda.