<b>XI LOK SABHA DEBATES,  <i> Session IV (Budget) </i>
</b>
XI LOK SABHA DEBATES,   Session IV (Budget) 

Wednesday, March 12, 1997 / Phalguna  21, 1918 (Saka)





Type of Debate: SPECIAL MENTION

Title: Regarding detriorating law and order situation in Uttar Pradesh.

TEXT :


SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):





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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)







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SHRI PRABHU DAYAL KATHERIA (FEROZABAD):





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DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI (ALLAHABAD):





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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)







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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

 





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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)




SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): Sir, I also want to  say  something  on
U.P... (Interruptions) Murders are taking place there, which is condemnable as
the Leader of the Opposition has mentioned... (Interruptions)






={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ: ¨Éä®úä {ÉÉºÉ ºÉ¤ÉEòä xÉÉ¨É ½þèÆ, BEò-BEò Eò®úEòä ¤ÉÖ±ÉÉ>ðÆMÉÉ*


			... (Interruptions)

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): Many incidents are taking place which
are condemnable. As the Leader of the Opposition has mentioned, a great danger
is befalling on U.P. now. There has been a campaign launched by the VHP yatra
to liberate Krishna Janmasthan, to enact 6th December again by acquiring Shahi
Idgah. Now they are shouting about U.P. They say that hopefully this is the
first trial of the campaign. They want to liberate Krishna Janmasthan
associated with the Idgah. So let the Home Minister respond to this also
because that will embroil not only U.P. but the whole of the country as was
done due to the event after 6th December 1992. Nothing can be more serious
than these happenings. (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): I condemn all acts of killings and all acts
of murders as the Leader of the Opposition has rightly mentioned.
(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Nothing is audible.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Let him condemn what is happening there
also.

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): Will the Leader of the Opposition stand
up to say that he condemns those forces? Will the Leader of the Opposition or
even Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi condemn these efforts as they started liberating
Madhura? Why do you not condemn them? Why are you so silent? Why is he not
condemning this? He is trying to play a political role. (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I request you to
make an observation about this.

			... (Interruptions)

1212 hours


(At this stage, Shri Prabhu Dayal Katheria and some other hon. Members came

 and stood on the floor near the Table.)

			... (Interruptions)


1212 hours


 (At this stage, Shri E. Ahamed and some other hon. Members came 

 and stood on the floor near the Table.)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Nothing will go on record.

			(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please go to your seats.

			... (Interruptions)

1214 hours


 (At this stage, Shri Prabhu Dayal Katheria and some other hon. Members

 went back to their seats.)

			... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please go back to your seats.

1214 hours


 (At this stage, Shri E. Ahamed and some other hon. Members

 went back to their seats.)

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): They are destroying the secular  fabric
of this country.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please go back to your seats.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): What is this? (Interruptions) Why are
they silent? ... (Interruptions)

Sir, why are they silent? ...(Interruptions). Why are you not directing the
Government to respond?...(Interruptions). You should request the Government to
respond. 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev...

			... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Joshiji, please sit down. Let Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev
speak.



SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): Sir, from our party, we fully appreciate the
concern expressed by the Leader of the Opposition regarding the incident in
Muzaffarnagar. No one in this House, irrespective of any ism, has any
difference of opinion on this and we also condemn it. Your direction to the
Minister of Home Affairs is not objected to by us; we rather appreciate it.
But we shall also, at the same time, expect it from the Chair, which is like
the judgement seat of Vikramaditya, that when a person sits in the Chair, he
should always look to all sides of the House. The issue that has been raised
by Shri Nirmal Kanti Chatterjee is equally of great concern for the whole
House...(Interruptions). If the situation in Uttar Pradesh is beyond the
control of the State Government, which is under President's rule, as expressed
by Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee, it demands more from the party which has
supported VHP, to stop that agitation which is a disputed one. I shall request
and humbly appeal to you that you should also direct the Government to come
forward and make a statement on this.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Prabhu Dayal Katheria...

			... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please, let Shri Prabhu Dayal Katheria speak. I will
allow you also. Let him speak first...

			... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : I have allowed Shri Katheria. Please allow him to speak.


SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, an appeal has been made to you to
kindly give a direction to the Home Minister to make a statement. If you are
not inclined to do that, I call upon the Government to make that statement
today. They should make a statement on VHP.

SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): Sir, we fully support Shri Somnath Chatterjee...
(Interruptions)

Sir, nothing can go on without disposing of this matter raised by Shri Nirmal
Kanti Chatterjee. It is the most important issue. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): Sir, you give a direction to the
Government. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI A.C. JOS (IDUKKI): Sir, You gave a direction to the Government supporting
what Shri Vajpayee had said. You should also give a ruling on the statement of
Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): Sir, you give a direction to the Government to
make a statement on what Shri Nirmal Kanti Chatterjee said. ...(Interruptions)
I fully endorse what Shri Somnath Chatterjee said. The Government should come
out with a statement. ...(Interruptions) Nothing can be more important than
this. ...(Interruptions)

DR. GIRIJA VYAS (UDAIPUR): Sir, it is the most important issue. We want a
response from the Government. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): Sir, you have already given a direction
on the earlier issue raised by the Leader of the Opposition. You should direct
the Government to make a statement on this. The import of this event may be
very serious. ...(Interruptions) It may embroil the whole country.
...(Interruptions)

SHRI AMAR ROY PRADHAN (COOCHBEHAR): Sir, the Chair should give a direction to
the Government to make a statement on what Shri Nirmal Kanti Chatterjee said.
If not, a suo motu statement should come from the Government.
...(Interruptions)

SHRI A.C. JOS (IDUKKI): Sir, I do not question your impartiality.
...(Interruptions) Please give a direction to the Government.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, what prevents you from giving a
direction to the Government? ...(Interruptions)

SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): Sir, the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs is
here. Shri Jena, you come out with a statement. ...(Interruptions) This is a
serious matter. ...(Interruptions) Sir, we cannot any more allow to see
another "Sixth December" in India. ...(Interruptions) The country's interests
are very much bigger.

DR. GIRIJA VYAS (UDAIPUR): Sir, this is an important issue. ...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : I cannot hear. All of you are speaking.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): Sir, I request you to please put on the
earphone. ...(Interruptions) The whole country is bursting. ...(Interruptions)
Please give a direction to the Government.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please take your seat.

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): Sir, we want a direction from you. Why
do you not consider our request?

SHRI E. AHAMED (MANJERI): Sir, this is a highly sensitive issue. It affects
the whole country, particularly the minorities. ...(Interruptions) You please
consider the constant threat that the minorities face because of these
provocative actions. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, they want to organise a march to
Mathura. Government should make a statement on this issue also. The Chair may
give a direction. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Sir, we are all requesting. Please give a
direction to the Government on this.

SHRI MULLAPPALLY RAMACHANDRAN (CANNANOR) Sir, this is a serious issue.
...(Interruptions)


MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please sit down. 




<iÉxÉä +Énù¨ÉÒ ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þä ½þèÆ*







			
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): Why is the Chair silent? Why do you not give a
direction to them?

SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):





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(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Let us listen to Shri Vajpayee. Please sit down.

SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):





¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ (±ÉJÉxÉ>ð) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, +É{ÉEòÒ +xÉÖ¨ÉÊiÉ ºÉä =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É
Eòä EòÖUô ¨ÉɨɱÉä ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ =`öÉB MÉB lÉä* ´É½þ SÉSÉÉÇ +MÉ®ú ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ ½þÉä VÉÉiÉÒ +Éè®ú =vÉ®ú ¤Éè`öä ½þÖB
¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ EòÉä<Ç +Éè®ú ¨ÉɨɱÉÉ =`öÉxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä VÉ°ü®ú =`öÉBÆ, ½þ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉÊiiÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þè*







+MÉ®ú ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
 +¤É <x½þÉäÆxÉä <Eò_ä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉÉ ¶ÉÖ¯û Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ ...
(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨É +É{ÉEòÉä ]õÉäEò xɽþÒÆ ®ú½þä lÉä* ¨Éä®úÒ +¦ÉÒ iÉEò ªÉ½þ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ +ɪÉÉ ÊEò ...
(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI VAIDYA DAU DAYAL JOSHI (KOTA):





´Éèt nùÉ>ð nùªÉÉ±É VÉÉä¶ÉÒ (EòÉä]õÉ) : Eò`öäÊ®úªÉÉ VÉÒ EòÉ {ÉÚ®úÉ {ÉÊ®ú´ÉÉ®ú MÉÉªÉ¤É ½þè* +É{É EªÉÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä
½þèÆ?


SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):





¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ (±ÉJÉxÉ>ð) : +MÉ®ú ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ºÉä ¨ÉlÉÖ®úÉ +Éè®ú EòɶÉÒ Eòä
¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ´ÉEiÉ´ªÉ nùäxÉä EòÒ ¨ÉÉÆMÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ iÉÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ´ÉEiÉ´ªÉ nùä* ½þ¨É =ºÉEòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ
Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ* 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI  NIRMAL  KANTI  CHATTERJEE  (DUMDUM):  You  tell  the Deputy Speaker. You
request him. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): The Chair  has  given  a  direction  on  that
issue.

SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):





¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ (±ÉJÉxÉ>ð) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ Eòäxpù EòÉ
¶ÉɺÉxÉ ½þè* <ºÉʱÉB ½þ¨É Eòäxpù ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä nùÉä¹É nùäiÉä ½þèÆ*




=iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ ¶ÉÉÊxiÉ ¤ÉxÉɪÉä ®úJÉxÉÉ Eòäxpù EòÒ ÊVɨ¨ÉänùÉ®úÒ ½þè* =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ
¨ÉlÉÖ®úÉ, EòɶÉÒ +Éè®ú +ªÉÉävªÉÉ ¦ÉÒ +ÉiÉä ½þèÆ* +MÉ®ú ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ºÉnùºªÉ =iiÉäÊVÉiÉ ½þèÆ iÉÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú
´ÉEiÉ´ªÉ ±ÉɪÉä, ºÉnùxÉ =ºÉ {É®ú SÉSÉÉÇ Eò®úäMÉÉ, ½þ¨É ¦ÉÒ +{ÉxÉÒ Ê]õ{{ÉhÉÒ nùäÆMÉä*








... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, I am very happy that the hon. Leader of
the Opposition has said that the Government should make a  statement  on  that
also.  But as the entire House has condemned all the killings and murders that
are taking place in Uttar Pradesh, we want to know whether they are condemning
the action of the VHP or not.

SHRI N.K. PREMCHANDRAN (QUILON): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, we want to know  the
ruling from you in this regard also. ....(Interruptions).






={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ºÉiªÉnùä´É VÉÒ +É{É ¤Éè`ö VÉɪÉäÆ* ¨Éä®úÒ EòÊ`öxÉÉ<Ç ªÉ½þ ½þè ÊEò VÉ¤É 15 +Énù¨ÉÒ BEò
ºÉÉlÉ ¤ÉÉä±ÉiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ +ÉiÉÉ ÊEò EòÉèxÉ EªÉÉ ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þÉ ½þè*







		
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI SAMIK LAHIRI (DIAMOND HARBOUR): Please tell whether BJP is condemning  it
or not. ....(Interruptions).

MR.  DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Please  listen  to  me.  Are  you sure to speak on every
subject? Can you not listen to others? Behave properly.

			... (Interruptions)






={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¸ÉÒ ºÉÉä¨É xÉÉlÉ SÉ]õVÉÒÇ xÉä +Eòä±Éä ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÒ ½þè, ¨Éä®úÒ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ¨ÉäÆ +É<Ç
½þè* =x½þÉäÆxÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ iÉEò Eò½þÉ ÊEò SÉäªÉ®ú¨ÉèxÉ <xÉE±ÉÉ<ÇÆb÷ xɽþÒÆ* BäºÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ xɽþÒÆ* ¨ÉèÆ {ÉÚ®úÒ iÉ®ú½þ
ºÉä <xÉE±ÉÉ<ÇÆb÷ ½þÚÆ 

that Government should make a statement on this also.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, Shri Prabhu Dayal Katheria will speak.

			... (Interruptions)






={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : 15 +Énù¨ÉÒ ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, ¨Éä®úÒ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ +É ®ú½þÉ ½þè*


			... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have allowed Shri Katheria. Please sit down now.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI   BASU   DEB   ACHARIA   (BANKURA):   They   are   not   condemning   it.
....(Interruptions).

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have allowed Shri Katheria and none else.

			... (Interruptions)




SHRI PRABHU DAYAL KATHERIA (FEROZABAD):





¸ÉÒ |ɦÉÖ nùªÉÉ±É Eò`öäÊ®úªÉÉ (Ê¡ò®úÉäVÉɤÉÉnù) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ ¤É½þÖiÉ ½þÒ nùÖJÉ +Éè®ú
Ê´Éb÷¨¤ÉxÉÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ +É{ÉEòä ºÉɨÉxÉä ®úJÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨Éä®úä {ÉÊ®ú´ÉÉ®ú Eòä ºÉÉlÉ 17 ¡ò®ú´É®úÒ EòÉä
VÉÉä ½þÉnùºÉÉ ½þÖ+É, ¨ÉèÆxÉä =ºÉä <ºÉ ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤Éc÷Ò MÉƦÉÒ®úiÉÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ ºÉä >ð{É®ú =`öEò®ú
ʤÉxÉÉ ÊEòºÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ {É®ú +É®úÉä{É ±ÉMÉÉiÉä ½þÖªÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þÒ* ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉ ºÉnùºªÉ ½þÚÆ +Éè®ú
+É{É ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ºÉÆ®úIÉEò ½þèÆ* ¨Éä®úÉ EòiÉÇ´ªÉ lÉÉ +Éè®ú ¨Éä®úä {ÉÊ®ú´ÉÉ®ú {É®ú VÉÉä {ÉÒc÷É +É<Ç, =ºÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä
<ºÉ ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉEòä ºÉɨÉxÉä ®úJÉÒ* ¨Éä®úÒ ªÉ½þ |ÉÉlÉÇxÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ¨ÉèÆxÉä 4 ¨ÉÉSÉÇ EòÉä <ºÉ
½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ ®úJÉÒ +Éè®ú º{ÉÒEò®ú ºÉɽþ¤É xÉä +{ÉxÉÒ °üʱÉÆMÉ nùÒ ÊEò ½þÉä¨É ʨÉÊxɺ]õ®ú ºÉɽþ¤É 2-4 ÊnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ
{ÉÚ®úÒ VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ |ÉÉ{iÉ Eò®úEòä BEò º]õä]õ¨ÉäÆ]õ ¨Éä®úä {ÉÊ®ú´ÉÉ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ nùäÆ*





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