THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF TOURISM (SHRI SRIKANT JENA): I beg to move:
"That this House do agree with the Eleventh Report of the Business Advisory Committee presented to the House on the 12th March, 1997."
MR. SPEAKER: Motion moved:
"That this House do agree with the Eleventh Report of the Business Advisory Committee presented to the House on the 12th March, 1997."
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI):
May be disposed of without discussion.
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI):
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, it seems that there is no communication between the leaders and the workers in that Party.
SHRI PRAMOTHES MUKHERJEE (BERHAMPORE) (WB): Sir, this word, `himmat' should be expunged from the proceedings. This should not be allowed. That is not a parliamentary expression. I request you to expunge it. This is a constitutional question. This word should be expunged from the proceedings. This is my submission.
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
Is it nobody's business?
MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down.
JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, before you give a ruling, I want to raise a question.
MR. SPEAKER : I cannot give a ruling. How can I give a ruling? This has to be voted by the House.
JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): Sir, I have given it in writing and I want to supplement it here. I have raised an objection under the Constitution of India. Article 356 says, ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : It is not going on record.
(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)
MR. SPEAKER : We are talking about the Report of the Business Advisory Committee. We are not talking about the Resolution now. Please sit down.
Shrimati Swaraj, this is a decision which was taken after due discussion in the Business Advisory Committee. It is not the Government which is bringing forward a proposal. So, you cannot ask how the Business Advisory Committee could make this recommendation.
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRI HARIN PATHAK (AHMEDABAD): It is there on the Agenda and we have to discuss the UP Budget in Parliament.
JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): Sir, I have raised an objection under the Constitution.
MR. SPEAKER : Would you kindly listen to me? Shri Lodha, that objection is not to be raised at this stage. You have not understood it. I have understood the notice given by you. This is not the time for you to stand up. Please sit down. You have been the Chief Justice of a High Court.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, this is `judicial activism'.
JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): Sir, you need not reply if you do not want to answer my question, but it should not be a matter of not allowing a Member to speak.
MR. SPEAKER : Shri Lodha, your notice is for opposing the Resolution of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs for extension of President's rule. Is it not? Has that matter come up now? You are opposing the Resolution and the Resolution has not been taken up now. You must understand that.
SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): He does not understand that. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): My question is this. Was any hon. Member from BJP present in the meeting of the Business Advisory Committee or not? The Report of the BAC is a unanimous Report. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, it seems that there is a communication gap in that Party between the Members belonging to the first row and the second row.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): And also between one another. If they want a little more time to explain to them, let them take. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It is not like that.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): Normally, I would not have revealed what happened in the Business Advisory Committee. ... (Interruptions) When this issue came up before the Committee, we had said that we were not agreeable to that. So, a senior Member cannot come and say something like this. It is unfair to us. We are helping the Business Advisory Committee by remaining present to ensure that the business goes on smoothly. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: May I make it clear?
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please listen to me.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: We have to be practical.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Look here. We have to pass so many Bills. Ten Ordinances have to be passed, Railway Budget has to be passed and Vote on Account has to be passed. So much business is there before the House.
With regard to UP, we have to discuss the Budget of U.P., we have to discuss on Demands for Grants of U.P., we have to discuss the extension of President's Rule in U.P. and then we have to discuss Motion under Rule 184. Now, for each item on U.P., if we go on discussing, discussing and discussing, then where is the time for other business of the House?
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Why do you not allow me to finish?
... (Interruptions)
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The question is:
"That this House do agree with the Eleventh Report of the Business Advisory Committee presented to the House on the 12th March, 1997."
Those in favour will please say `Aye'.
SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: `Aye'
MR. SPEAKER: Those against will please say `No'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: `No' ... (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI): Sir, we want division. How can you do it without discussion? ... (Interruptions)
DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI (ALLAHABAD): Sir, we want division. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): Sir, we want division. ... (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI): Sir, this is not right. ... (Interruptions)
DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI (ALLAHABAD):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (SOUTH DELHI):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI (ALLAHABAD):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
ªÉ½þ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ +ÊvÉEòÉ®ú ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨É ¤ÉÒ.B.ºÉÒ. EòÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ {É®ú ʴɦÉÉVÉxÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ*... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
MR. SPEAKER: Please, do not break the convention.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please listen to me.
... (Interruptions)
If a `division' is allowed now, in future our party will not attend the Business Advisory Committee meetings. ... (Interruptions) Every time it is being done like this and I shall appeal to them. ... (Interruptions) What is this? ... (Interruptions)
DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI (ALLAHABAD): It is totally unconstitutional. ... (Interruptions) Without discussion, how can everything be passed? ... (Interruptions) How can it be possible? ... (Interruptions) Sir, the Business Advisory Committee has to function under the Constitution. ... (Interruptions)
1217 hours
(At this stage, Col. Sona Ram Choudhary and some other hon. Members came
and stood on the floor near the Table.)
... (Interruptions)
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):
DR. GIRIJA VYAS (UDAIPUR):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
1219 hours
(At this stage, Col Sona Ram Choudhary and some other hon. Members
went back to their seats.)
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):
BAC
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
+É{É SÉÖ{É ®úʽþB* ¨ÉÖZÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þxÉä nùÒÊVÉB* ¨ÉèÆ ÊEòºÉÒ EòÉä xɽþÒÆ ]õÉäEòiÉÉ +Éè®ú +MÉ®ú +É{É ]õÉäEòÉ-]õÉEòÒ Eò®úäÆMÉä iÉÉä Ê¡ò®ú ¤É½þºÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÒ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)MR. SPEAKER: Why are you complicating the matter?
... (Interruptions)
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
+vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ ºÉä ºÉ½þ¨ÉiÉ ½þÚÆ* +É{É 184 Eòä ʱÉB +ÊvÉEò ºÉ¨ÉªÉ nùäxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ, <ºÉEòÉ iÉÉä ½þ¨É º´ÉÉMÉiÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ* 184 iÉÉä +É{ÉxÉä ½þÒ º´ÉÒEòÉ®ú ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè, +xªÉlÉÉ =vÉ®ú ¤Éè`öä ½þÖB <ºÉEòÉä º´ÉÒEòÉ®ú Eò®úxÉä Eòä {ÉIÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ lÉä* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ =ºÉ {É®ú SÉSÉÉÇ ½þÉä, ªÉ½þ WÉ°ü®úÒ ½þè, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ <ºÉEòÉ +lÉÇ ªÉ½þ xɽþÒÆ ½þè ÊEò ®úɹ]Å{ÉÊiÉ ®úÉVÉ EòÉä |ɺiÉÉ´É uÉ®úÉ ¤ÉgøÉxÉä EòÉ VÉÉä EòÉxÉÚxÉÒ °ü{É ºÉä =±ÉZÉÉ ½þÖ+É ¨ÉɨɱÉÉ ½þè, =ºÉ {É®ú ʤÉxÉÉ SÉSÉÉÇ Eòä º´ÉÒEÞòÊiÉ nùä nùÒ VÉÉB* ½þ¨É ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ºÉnùºªÉ Eòä xÉÉiÉä +{ÉxÉä nùÉʪÉi´É EòÉ ÊxÉ´ÉÉǽþ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú ½þ¨É +ɶÉÉ Eò®úiÉä lÉä ÊEò ʤÉWÉxÉàºÉ Bäb÷´ÉÉ<WÉ®úÒ Eò¨Éä]õÒ BäºÉÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ xɽþÒÆ Eò®úäMÉÒ* +É{ÉEòÉ Eò½þxÉÉ ºÉ½þÒ ½þè ÊEò ´É½þÉÆ EòxɺÉàxºÉºÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ*But consensus is not unanimity.
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Vajpayee, if I can intervene, I would like to say that I have, right from the beginning, told Justice Lodha that I have received his notice and that he has raised a basic constitutional question in this regard and that I will allow him to submit his point of view. Naturally, once I allow him, then others also will like to speak. As far as the constitutionality of either extension or imposition is concerned, I have already agreed. I have agreed that I will allow that.
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):
MR. SPEAKER: This is a subsequent development.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: BAC has given its Report. I have received the notice of Shri Lodha. He had raised a constitutional question and I have said that I am allowing that. I cannot deny any Member of Parliament raising a constitutional issue.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): It was never said and you never observed that a constitutional issue will never be allowed to be raised.
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, I never said so.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Well, I do not have to say anything. Let us then have a discussion as to what happened there. Let the tape be played.
SHRI JASWANT SINGH (CHITTORGARH): Yes, let the tape be played. I am astounded that such a senior Member, a good friend of mine, is speaking like this....(interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): I have never said it. I have said ultimately that Shri Jaswant Singh was demanding all the time that the matter under Rule 184 should be discussed first...(interruptions)
SHRI JASWANT SINGH (CHITTORGARH): It is not the question of demanding all the time...(interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, I am sure he will agree with me. He said that the matter under Rule 184 should be discussed first. It was his persistent demand that matter under Rule 184 should be discussed first....(interruptions)
SHRI JASWANT SINGH: I raised the question of constitutional propriety in the BAC.... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: In fact, after the BAC meeting, when I was going home, the Press was waiting for me and they were asking me this question. And I said, why that question is raised.
You were good enough to direct your staff to look into it. The Minister did not even have the information on this subject. The Minister then said that the Cabinet was yet to meet to discuss that matter. I have been forced and compelled to say all this about the BAC.