<b>XI LOK SABHA DEBATES, <i> Session IV (Budget) </i> </b>


<b>XI LOK SABHA DEBATES,  <i> Session IV (Budget) </i>
</b>
XI LOK SABHA DEBATES,   Session IV (Budget) 

Wednesday, March 19, 1997  / Phalguna  28, 1918 (Saka)



Type of Debate: ANNOUNCEMENTS BY SPEAKER

Title: Conviction and lodgement of a Member (Shri Kalpnath Rai).

TEXT :

MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI P.M. SAYEED): I have to inform the House that the following
wireless  message dated 17 March, 1997 was received on 18 March, 1997 from the
Superintendent, Jail number 5, Tihar, New Delhi:


        "Shri Kalpnath Rai, Member of  Lok  Sabha  has  been  convicted
        today  by  the  Court of Additional Sessions Judge, Shahadra in
        case numbers 140 to 144/93 Police  Station  Preet  Vihar  under
        TADA Act. He is lodged in Jail number 5, Tihar, New Delhi."


1203 hours

 SPECIAL MENTIONS

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI P.M. SAYEED): If you do not shout and sit quietly, you will
get a chance.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let us have an orderly Zero Hour today.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You will get a chance.

			... (Interruptions)

JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): Sir, I wish to submit that from  the  List  of
Business  for  today  which  has been circulated, Item No.14, the Constitution
(Eighty-Second Amendment) Bill, has been deleted. Delisting can be made in the
List of Business only with the consent of the House.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please be seated.

SHRI GANGA CHARAN RAJPUT (HAMIRPUR):



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Please be seated. Please raise your points one by one.

SHRI RAJIV PRATAP RUDY (CHHAPRA): Sir, I am on a point of order.

MR. CHAIRMAN: When I am standing on my legs, how can  you  raise  a  point  of
order?

JUSTICE  GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): I am referring to page No.382 of Practice and
Procedure of Parliament by Kaul and Shakdher for the purpose of supporting  my
objection.  It  says  that  an  item  which  has  been included in the List of
Business once, cannot be delisted without the permission  of  the  House.  The
Constitution  (Eighty-Second  Amendment)  Bill in respect of the judiciary was
sought to be introduced by the Law Minister and that was placed  at  Item  No.
14.   Item   No.14  was  for  the  purpose  of  introduction  of  Constitution
(Eighty-Second) Amendment Bill and it does not find a place in the List today.
Kaul and  Shakdher  says,  I  am  just  reading  relevant  portions  from  it,
...(Interruptions)

MR.  CHAIRMAN:  Lodhaji,  can  you  hear  me  for  a  minute? It was under the
direction  of  the  hon.  Speaker  that  it  was  removed.  It  is  under  the
consideration of the hon. Speaker now.

SHRI GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): It was in the List at Item No.14.

MR.  CHAIRMAN:  Let  the  hon. Speaker consider the issue and come back to the
House. You are taking up a matter which is under  consideration  of  the  hon.
Speaker.

SHRI  GUMAN  MAL  LODHA  (PALI):  It is not under consideration. It was on the
agenda at Item No.14. The book says:

        
        "The Speaker has ruled that an item of  business  fixed  for  a
        particular  day should normally not be postponed. However, on a
        request..."

I am referring to page 382 of Kaul and Shakdher.


        "However, on a request made by a Minister and agreed to by  the
        House, the order of an item of business as set down in the List
        of Business may be changed or the item may not be taken up."

	Then, it says that after two sentences, the hon. Chairman may read it.

        
        "The Speaker has ruled that an item of business which has  been
        included in the advance List of Business cannot be taken out on
        the  ground  that it may not meet with approval of all sections
        of the House;"

	Now, Sir, this is the Speaker's ruling, Lok Sabha Debates in 1962.

	Now what happens here is that the Law  Minister  has  said  that  Item
no.14,  the  Eighty-second  Amendment of the Constitution was listed. Now, the
Law Minister says, not in the House, he does not come to the house to  make  a
request,  `I want to defer it'. He does not say to the Speaker, `please, allow
me to defer it for this reason'. He does not request the hon. Members  of  the
House  to allow him to defer it. He speaks to the Press, in the newspapers, in
the media. He says because the CPI(M) has objected to it, because the BJP  has
got  certain  reservations,  therefore, he is deferring it. He has given these
reasons in the Press, not in the House.

	Now,  I  would  submit that according to the Speaker's ruling, this is
not permissible. This is an act of serious impropriety on the part of the  Law
Minister for having gone to the Press instead of ... (Interruptions) coming to
the  House.  It  is  a  breach of privilege also. He should have come here and
requested the hon. Speaker, `Item No.14 may not be taken  up,  the  House  may
kindly  grant  the  permission'. The Speaker would have permitted; not that he
would not have permitted it. But, the Law Minister  instead  of  coming  here,
rushes  to  the  Press.  Item No.14 is not in the agenda today. What I want to
submit is ... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI P.M. SAYEED): Now please complete.

			... (Interruptions)

AN HON. MEMBER: What is your ruling? ... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me say something. You be seated.

			... (Interruptions)

JUSTICE GUMAN  MAL  LODHA  (PALI):  I  have  invited  your  attention  to  the
impropriety  and the breach of privilege committed by the Law Minister. I have
invited your attention to the Speaker's ruling contained in Kaul and Shakdher.
I only seek your honest protection. That is all. I do  not  want  anything.  I
seek  your  protection. You are the guardian of the House and the House should
not be taken for a ride, not to be taken for granted. ...  (Interruptions)  It
is  the  contempt;  it is the breach of privilege of the House. Therefore, the
Law Minister should come  here  ...  (Interruptions)  and  he  must  make  ...
(Interruptions)

AN HON. MEMBER: He should tender an apology. ... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: I told you to say one by one.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You please be seated.

			... (Interruptions)

MR.  CHAIRMAN: Lodhaji, your point of order has been taken note of and it will
be reported to the hon. Speaker.

			... (Interruptions)

JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): I have given a written notice.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.

JUSTICE GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): You may take it up. I do not  want  just  now.
You may give a ruling later on.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. Later on, it will be done.

JUSTICE  GUMAN MAL LODHA (PALI): In consultation with the hon. Speaker, it can
be done. But please do not allow the Law Minister to degrade  the  House.  ...
(Interruptions) That is all. ... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me hear the Parliamentary Affairs Minister.

			... (Interruptions)

THE  MINISTER  OF  PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF TOURISM (SHRI SRIKANT
JENA): I would like to draw the attention  of  the  hon.  Member,  Lodhaji,  a
former  Chief  Justice  of the High Court. This Bill which was scheduled to be
introduced in the House was not  introduced.  It  was  withdrawn  by  the  Law
Minister  and that was not a property of the House unless it was introduced in
the House. Therefore, I hope... ... (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI BHAVNABEN DEVRAJ BHAI CHIKHALIA (JUNAGADH):



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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI RAM NAIK (MUMBAI NORTH): Once the List of Business is circulated  to  the
Members, it becomes the property of the house. We are raising the issue out of
that.  ..  (Interruptions) After it has been told, the authority has also been
quoted by him. Now the Minister cannot just say that it is not the property of
the House. Okay, you are deferring the ruling. ..... (Interruptions)  Let  the
ruling  come after due consideration. It is a law. What Parliamentary Minister
says is illogical and it is beyond consideration. ... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI P.M. SAYEED): I have already given my ruling.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please speak one by one.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN (DINDIGUL): Sir, on behalf  of  the  Parliamentarians  of
Tamil Nadu ... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: I have already decided. What is this?

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI  N.S.V.  CHITTHAN  (DINDIGUL):  Mr.  Chairman  Sir,  on  behalf  of   the
Parliamentarians of Tamil Nadu, I rise to draw the attention of the House to a
very  serious  matter.  It  relates  to  the  ethics  of  the  legislators and
parliamentarians. At a time when the image of the elected  representatives  is
the lowest in the public eye, we are shocked and distressed to say that...(Not
recorded)

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I will not allow this.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: This cannot be allowed to be raised here.

			(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, that will not go on record.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI A.C. JOS (IDUKKI): It is against the rules, Sir.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN (DINDIGUL): ...(Not recorded)

MR.  CHAIRMAN:  The  conduct  of  any Assembly cannot be the subject matter of
discussion here.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You cannot denigrate any Assembly here.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You go back to your seats.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please go back to your seats.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record.

			(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)

MR. CHAIRMAN: I am not getting anything. Please speak one by one.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN (DINDIGUL): Sir, I urge upon the  Central  Government  to
hand  over  this case to the CBI... (Interruptions) and to recall the Governor
immediately... (Interruptions)




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