XI LOK SABHA DEBATES,   Session IV (Budget) 

Wednesday, March 05, 1997 / Phalguna  14, 1918 (Saka)



Type of Debate: SPECIAL MENTION

Title: A news item published in the newspaper detailing the derogatory
remarks on the conduct of the House and the members made by Dr.  Subhash C. 
Kashyap, the former Secretary General of Lok Sabha.

TEXT :

MR. SPEAKER : I will give a chance to everybody.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : You will have a chance. ... (Interruptions)

SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): Sir, I have given a  privilege  notice  which  is
lying with you since 28th February. ... (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI BHAVNABEN DEVRAJ BHAI CHIKHALIA (JUNAGADH):



¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉɤÉäxÉ nùä´É®úÉVÉ ¦ÉÉ<Ç ÊSÉJÉʱɪÉÉ (VÉÚxÉÉMÉgø) : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉ vªÉÉxÉ
ºÉ®únùÉ®ú ºÉ®úÉä´É®ú {ÉÊ®úªÉÉäVÉxÉÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ Ênù±ÉÉxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä...





				
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI KASHI RAM RANA (SURAT):



¸ÉÒ EòɶÉÒ®úÉ¨É ®úÉhÉÉ (ºÉÚ®úiÉ) : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, Ê{ÉUô±Éä iÉÒxÉ ºÉÉ±É ºÉä ºÉ®únùÉ®ú ºÉ®úÉä´É®ú EòÉ ¨ÉɨɱÉÉ
±É]õEòÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè....





				
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


PROF. RITA VERMA (DHANBAD):



|ÉÉä. ®úÒiÉÉ ´É¨ÉÉÇ (vÉxɤÉÉnù) : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, |ÉҴɱÉäVÉ Eòä ¨ÉɨɱÉä EòÉä |Éä£òäÆºÉ nùäEò®ú
¨ÉÖZÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä nùäÆ*





			
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


SHRI LALMUNI CHAUBEY (BUXAR):



¸ÉÒ ±ÉɱɨÉÖxÉÒ SÉÉè¤Éä (¤ÉEºÉ®ú) : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ʤɽþÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®úä±ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ b÷EòèÊiɪÉÉÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ
½þèÆ...


			... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Kindly sit down.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down. I am coming to you. Can you listen to me first?
Shri Rudi, can you listen to me first?

			... (Interruptions)

MR.  SPEAKER  : If you all stand up like this, nothing can be done. Why do you
not sit coolly and calmly? I have got the whole list of hon. Members who  have
given  notice.  I  am  going to call you all one by one. Please have patience.
Please sit where you are; please keep quiet; everybody will get a chance.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨Éä®úÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉÖxÉ ±ÉÒÊVɪÉä..


SHRI LALMUNI CHAUBEY (BUXAR):



¸ÉÒ ±ÉɱɨÉÖxÉÒ SÉÉè¤Éä (¤ÉEºÉ®ú) : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ʤɽþÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ b÷EòèÊiɪÉÉÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ ...
(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ).. +É{É ¨Éä®úÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ {ɽþ±Éä ºÉÖxÉ ±ÉÒÊVɪÉä..





			
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)





+vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¨ÉèÆ ºÉ¤ÉEòÉä BEò ºÉÉlÉ EòèºÉä ºÉÖxÉÚÆMÉÉ?


SHRI LALMUNI CHAUBEY (BUXAR):



¸ÉÒ ±ÉɱɨÉÖxÉÒ SÉÉè¤Éä (¤ÉEºÉ®ú) : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ʤɽþÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ xÉ Eòä´É±É ®úä±ÉäÆ ±ÉÚ]õÒ VÉÉ ®ú½þÒ
½þè ¤ÉʱEò ¤É±ÉÉiEòÉ®ú ¦ÉÒ ÊEòªÉä VÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* <ºÉ ¨ÉɨɱÉä {É®ú MÉƦÉÒ®úiÉÉ ºÉä Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú ÊEòªÉÉ VÉÉxÉÉ
SÉÉʽþªÉä 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
.. ʤɽþÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ¤É¤ÉÇ®úiÉÉ{ÉÚhÉÇ ®úä±ÉMÉÉÊc÷ªÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ b÷EòèÊiɪÉÉÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ
½þèÆ....


			... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Cameras will be put off.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI LALMUNI CHAUBEY (BUXAR):



¸ÉÒ ±ÉɱɨÉÖxÉÒ SÉÉè¤Éä (¤ÉEºÉ®ú) : ´É½þÉÆ <ºÉ iÉ®ú½þ Eòä EòÉÆb÷ ½þÉä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)
..





+É{É VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þèÆ ªÉ½þÉÆ ºÉä EòÉä<Ç BäºÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þÖ<Ç ½þè*


			... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Cameras will be put off and nothing will go on record.

			(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)

MR. SPEAKER: Let the cameras be put off and nothing will go on record. Now you
can say whatever you want to say.

			(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing is going on record. You will not get any relief. All the
cameras are off and nothing is going on record unless you all sit down.

			... (Interruptions)




+vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ÊVÉiÉxÉÉ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉÉ SÉɽþäÆ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ®úàEòÉb÷Ç {É®ú EòÖUô xɽþÒÆ VÉÉ ®ú½þÉ
½þè*





 (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) 
... (EòɪÉÇ´ÉɽþÒ-´ÞÉiiÉÉxiÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉʨ¨ÉʱÉiÉ xɽþÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ MɪÉÉ*)

 @



+vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ¶ÉÉÆÊiÉ ºÉä ¤ÉèÊ`öB* ºÉ¤ÉEòÉä ¨ÉÉèEòÉ Ê¨É±ÉäMÉÉ* +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉ 15-20 +Énù¨ÉÒ BEò ºÉÉlÉ
JÉc÷ä ½þÉäEò®ú ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä ±ÉMÉ VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ* <ºÉºÉä EªÉÉ ¡òɪÉnùÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ? +É{É VÉÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ
¤ÉÉäʱÉB* ¨ÉÖZÉä EªÉÉ Eò®úxÉÉ ½þè?





 (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) 
... (EòɪÉÇ´ÉɽþÒ-´ÞÉiiÉÉxiÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉʨ¨ÉʱÉiÉ xɽþÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ MɪÉÉ*)

 @
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW):



¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ (±ÉJÉxÉ>ð) : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, {ɽþ±Éä Ê|ÉʴɱÉàVÉ ¨ÉÉä¶ÉxÉ ±Éä ±ÉÒÊVÉB* ´É½þ
{ɽþ±Éä +ÉiÉÉ ½þè*


			(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)

MR. SPEAKER: All right. I am telling that everybody will get a chance, if they
sit in their places. I will call one by one. I have got the list with me.  Why
are  you in a hurry? Everybody is speaking and nothing is going on record. All
the cameras are off and nothing is being recorded. The cameras are  being  put
off. Your constituency people will not see you. Cameras are off.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (BARH):



¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú (¤ÉÉgø) : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ʤɽþÉ®ú ºÉä ¶ÉÖ°ü Eò®ú nùÒÊVÉB*


			... (Interruptions)

MR.  SPEAKER:  Nitishji,  you  are a Presiding Officer. I will allow you first
after a few minutes. Shri Pappu, I will give you a chance. Please keep  quiet.
Ranaji,  I am dealing with the Privilege Motion first. I will first dispose of
the Privilege Motion.

			... (Interruptions)

PROF. RITA VERMA (DHANBAD):



|ÉÉä. ®úÒiÉÉ ´É¨ÉÉÇ (vÉxɤÉÉnù) : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, Ê´ÉMÉiÉ 10 VÉxÉ´É®úÒ EòÉä ¨Éä®úä ºÉÉlÉ VÉÉä PÉ]õxÉÉ PÉ]õÒ
½þè, =ºÉEòä ºÉƤÉÆvÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É{ÉEòÉä ʴɶÉä¹ÉÉÊvÉEòÉ®ú ½þxÉxÉ EòÒ BEò ºÉÚSÉxÉÉ ¦ÉäVÉÒ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ
ºÉƤÉÆvÉ ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉEòÉ vªÉÉxÉ +ÉEÞò¹]õ Eò®úEòä +É{ÉEòÉ ÊxÉnùÇä¶É SÉɽþiÉÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò <ºÉ ¨ÉɨɱÉä ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ
½þÉä ®ú½þÉ ½þè* 
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)


MR. SPEAKER: I will certainly answer. But there is another Privilege Motion.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I will reply to you.

			... (Interruptions)



SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): Mr. Speaker Sir, on 28th February, I  brought  to
your  notice  a  reported  news item published in a leading newspaper of India
with the enclosures of both the Hindi and English translations  in  which  the
former  Secretary-General  of  Lok Sabha, Dr. Subhash Kashyap made a very wild
allegation and passed derogatory remarks on the conduct of the  entire  House,
the  Members  of Parliament of Opposition, Ruling Parties, even the Chair, and
the entire Secretariat. To that extent, I would only read out three lines.

        "He said that it has been his experience after having worked in
        Lok Sabha for many years that the Members of the Ruling as well
        as   the  Opposition  Parties  work  in  connivance.  Even  the
        uproarious scenes created in the Houses  are  pre-planned.  The
        Ruling  and  the  Opposition  Members  sit together and plan in
        advance as to how long the uproar  would  continue;  who  would
        throw  papers  on  whom  and  in  what manner and how they will
        oppose whom and how they will support whom."

He had said that all these decisions are pre-connived and that  the  political
parties  which  advocate  secularism  themselves compromise with the so-called
communal parties and they have their own arrangements also. Sir,  it  is  very
serious  that he said that due to this tumult, the Hawala scam issue could not
be raised and it came to light only after the judgement.

SHRIMATI BHAVNABEN DEVRAJ BHAI CHIKHALIA (JUNAGADH): Sir, you may now instruct
them to put on the cameras.

MR. SPEAKER: The cameras can be switched on now.

SHRI P.R. DASMUNSI (HOWRAH): This was also done in connivance. He further said
that  the  Members  of this House, in most of the cases, manage the affairs on
their own.

	The most dangerous point he made was that to get rid of the purview of
the measures relating to the public servants, the Members of Parliament do not
want themselves to be treated  as  public  servants.  They  all  connived  and
planned to shield their corruption.

	This  is  how  the  former  Secretary-General  had  commented. It is a
serious matter.

	He  said  that  it  is a management of the greatest trade union of the
world who shared their benefits among themselves.

	Nothing  could  be  more  shameless than this. On the one hand, we are
being assaulted every day by the judicial activism. On the other hand,  if  it
is done like this by a former Secretary-General, where does Parliament stand?

	I think, it is a fit matter for privilege. Therefore, I request you to
take a decision from your own wisdom to protect the honour of the House. It is
casting an aspersion on the entire House.

SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (DUMDUM): The Leader  of  the  Opposition  should
either confirm or deny the contents of that statement.

MR.  SPEAKER:  I  have  received  the privilege notice not only from Shri P.R.
Dasmunsi but also from Shri P.M. Sayeed and Shri A.C. Jos. We have  asked  for
the  comments  from  the former Secretary-General as well as the Editor of the
Jansatta. I am waiting for their comments. As soon as I get the comments  from
the newspaper concerned, I will take a view on this.

	The  same  case  stands  for the notice received from Prof. (Shrimati)
Rita Verma. I have asked for a report from the Ministry of Home Affairs.  That
is the usual practice. As soon as I receive the report, I will take a decision
in the matter.

			... (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI BHAVNABEN DEVRAJ BHAI CHIKHALIA (JUNAGADH):



¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉɤÉäxÉ nùä´É®úÉVÉ ¦ÉÉ<Ç ÊSÉJÉʱɪÉÉ (VÉÚxÉÉMÉgø) : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ
Eòä ʱÉB ºÉ®únùÉ®ú ºÉ®úÉä´É®ú BEò ±ÉÉ<¡ò ±ÉÉ<xÉ ½þèÆ, ¨ÉèÆ VÉÒ®úÉä +Éì´É®ú ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉÉ
SÉɽþiÉÒ ½þÚÆ*


MR. SPEAKER:  I do not remember it.  I will check up about this case.

			... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Nitish Kumar happens to be a Presiding Officer.  I  have  to
give him the chance first. Then, I will come to you.




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