10.05.93 *t04



SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN (Rosera): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to seek your protection. All the parties have said that as recommended by reservations the Mandal Commission should not affect SCs/STs. The hon. Minister has also submitted that the promotions of SCs/STs would not be affected by the judgement of the Supreme Court on Mandal Commission. I had also met

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you in this connection. 1600 posts have been advertised by the Syndicate Bank. In scale I I there are 1050 posts, in scale-II 1475 posts, in scale IV, 114 posts, scale-V 16, in scale VI-5 and in scale VII one post. This has been published by the Syndicate Bank vide order dated 23.4.93. It has been mentioned in that order that reserva- tions have been cancelled in the promotions. I quote:-


"In pursuance of the hon. Supreme Court judgement the bank provided reservation for SC/ST officers in promotion, communicate vide mo so and so dated 19.4.93..


The judgement of the Supreme Court of 1991 favours the reservation in promotions. Accordingly, promotions have been given and now the Government States:


"The Govemment of India has since examined the matter and have clarified that the Syndicate Bank is not required to provide reserva- tion for SC/ST, in promotions......


My submission is that nothing can be greater untrue statement than this Government. This demand is being raised time and again in the House and more over we have quoted at least ten examples and the first one is of Punjab Government. The hon. Minister has been reit- erating again and again that the interests of the SC/ST would not be allowed to get affected. 1600 posts have been advertisecd and the provision for reservations in promotions have beet. abolished for these posts. Who is responsible for that? If some officer is found responsible, he should be suspended; if the Minister is responsible, he should resign and if the Government is responsible, it should also resign. We urge

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upon the Government that Shri Kesri should throw some light ton the issue .... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: He was stated but the others do not get time to express their views.

THE MINISTER OF WELFARE (SHRI SITARAM KESRI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, after the judgement of supreme Court, I have made a statement in the very House on 20.12.92 that it does not disturb the present system for promotion or reservation in services ... (Interruptions) I have already stated that regarding the judgement of Supreme Court on Mandal Commission report .... (Interruptions) We reiterate our commitment to SC/ST ... (Interruptions) Please keep quiet ... (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Speaking only is not enough, you must learn the art of listening.

SHRI SHARAD YADAV (Madhepura): What is his response in this regard. He never comes prepared ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: First sit down. This is an important issue. Please listen to the views of the Government. You are not listening to what he is going to say. If you interrupt, he will sit down...


SHRI SITARAM KESRI: How can be afford to listen? It amounts to his exposure. I had submitted -in this House itself on 20th December .. (Interruptions)

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (Barh): You are being exposed ...


SHRI SITARAM KESRI: We had reiterted our commitment to protecting the interests of SC/ST. I repeat my statement that if the Supreme Court judgement ... (Interruptions)

SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (LUCKNOW): Mr. Chairman, Sir, what does it ** Expunged as ordered by the chair

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mean by 'if' Has the hon. Minister not read the judgement? Has the Govemment not formed its opinion in this regard? 'If' the judgement states ... (Interruptions) The hon. Minister should not say this.

There cannot be two opinions in respect of the judgement. The Government may form a different opinion of its own it may try to implement the same, but if the govemment says that "if " the judgement of the Supreme Court states this, than the government adopts such and such stand**. (Interruptions)

SHRI SITARAM KESRI: I had stated that wahtever statement I had made on December 22,1992,I was repeating the same; moreover I am not saying anything at the present. You are a learned person and even then you are talking like this. I am coming to the present circum- stance; you are making speech even before that. Whatever you have stated that we would amend the Constitution, if necessary. We would also pay attention to the views expressed by you.

SHRI HARI KISHORE SINGH (Sheohar) Please respond to the question regarding Tenth Schedule ... (Interruptions)


MR. SPEAKER: This is not correct. Let the Minister complete.


SHRI SITARAM KESRI: As regards the question of 1621 posts in Central Bank Syndicate Bank or any other Bank, there is no provision of reservation as per the judgement of the Supreme Court. But I would like to state that would justify it too in view of this problems.

SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg your pardon and I beg pardon. of the House also that I should have not interrupted Shri Kesri while he was speaking. You yourself would admit that the situation is not still

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clear. What is the reaction of the Government regarding the Supreme Court orders. What did Shri Kesriji say on December 22 is clear but the judgement of the Supreme Court should be laid on the Table of the House in a right perspective in view of the present circumstances and what is the response of the Government on it A should also be made clear. I do agree that the Mandal Commission was setup to safeguard the interests of the backward classes and the interests of SC/ST should not be affected by it. But the situation has not become clear as to what is the Supreme Court judgement and what is the opinion of the Government in this regard. Just now Shri Kesri has submitted that the amendment would be made in the Constitution at an appropriate time if necessary. I would like to ask when this need would arise. If there is any need to make an amendment in the Constitution, then the matter should be discussed with all. But the situation is uncertain.

The matter is being delayed. I am very sorry that is why I had to interrupt you.

SHRI SITARAM KESRI : As he has stated, the judgement should be laid on the Table of the House and A should be discussed. We have no objection to it ... (interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Only speaking will not solve the problem. The question is this whether the provision of the judgement are applicable to the candidates of the SC/ST or not whether it is applicable to the bank employees or not, if it is so, the reasons why these orders have been issued by the Syndicate Bank. If it is not applicable, what is the Government going to do for that.

SHRI SITARAM KESRI: After the Supreme Court judgement, I had made a statement on December 22 and as per that statement ...



SHRI HARI KISHORE SINGH: Again he is mentioning December 22.

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MR. SPEAKER: Interruptions will not solve the purpose. If you don't want reply, let him set down and you may continue to speak. If you want reply let him speak.

SHRI SITARAM KESRI: I said that [English]

"At present it will not be disturbed."


Therefore, I will take immediate action on the views expressed by them (interruptions)

SHRI SHARAD YADAV: What action will you take? Will you cancel that or issue orders. What will you do?(Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, what will he do, either he will cancel it or issue orders?


MR. SPEAKER: What are you doing?. There are other subjects to be taken up;take them up You got the reply. He said that the action is being taken, after that your problem should have been solved..


Hari Kishore Ji, You come on helicopter crash please.


SHRI KALKA DAS: Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not confined to

Syndicate Bank only such situations arising everywhere and in each de- partment (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please see. Your point was important one, so I allowed you to raise it.

SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: Sir, it is going one very day

MR SPEAKER : Though this matter was not in the list, yet 9 allowed you to raise it. Not

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only this I also asked the Govemment to make a statement thereon and the Governmet did also. Even then, if you want to continue it, then the business of the House can't be taken up. Yes Mr. Hari Kishore Singh...

SHRI HARI KISHORE SINGH: Mr. Speaker, Sir with your permission,I would like to draw the attention of the House to a serious incident.

General commanding officer of Eastern Command, his wife and several senior officers of Indian Army died in a helicopter crash.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very sad and such accidents are taking place time and again. I would like to ask the Government about the steps being taken to stop such accidents. Which company manufactured the said helicopter and when and how many helicopter have been manufactured by this company? These helicopters are still utilized by various wings or our Army. Shri Rajesh Pilot is present here... How many such helicopters are being utilised by army? In which year this helicopter was purchased? I would like to know all this because such accidents are taking place time and again. This helicopter was purchased 5-7 years ago from Wetland company..

MR. SPEAKER: This helicopter belonged to the Ministry of Defence and officials of Defence were travelling by it. Home Ministry is not concerned with this subject.....

SHRI HARI KISHORE SINGH: Mr. Speaker, Sir, which company

manufactured this helicopter and how many such helicopters are being utilised by army.


MR. SPEAKER: I will ask the Government to make a statement on the helicopter crash please.

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SHRI NITISH KUMAR (Barh): Mr. Speaker, Sir, two newspapers of the Times of India pubication group, viz., The Times of India and Navbharat Times are published form Patna but their publication has been discontinued from the 24th of the last month. Journalists and nonjournalists staff of these newspapers demanded implementation of recommendations of the Bachawat Wages Commission. The Times of.

India should have been put in category 'A' but it is being put in category-7. The employees of the Times of India Group at Patna are much agitated with the actions of the Management. False charges were leveled against one employee as are suit of this he had committed suicide and the Management wanted to implement scheme of modernisation forcibly from 24th April....


MR. SPEAKER: This is a private matter, I will not allow it. As far as the application of the Bachawat Report is concerned, you are on point, but on other points you are not.


SHRI CHHEDI PASWAN (Sasaram): Mr. Speaker, Sir, 400 employees are on the verge of starvation there..

MR. SPEAKER: That is a private industry. The Government has no control over it.


SHRI NITISH KUMAR: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the basic problem is about the implementation of recommendations of the Bachawat Commission and now the employees and journalists working there are bressing for the implementation of the said recommendations. The attitude of making delay has created other problems. We have discussed it here. A most unfortunate

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incident has happened there. A charge has been levelled that an employee committed suicide which I have discussed here on humanitarian grounds. Recommendations of Bachawat Wage Board should be implemented. The recommendation of this Wage Commission are applicable to the Times of India Group but most unfortunately it has not been implemented to the Staff working for Patna Edition. As a result , the publication of the news paper has been discontinued and the reader is not getting the issues of these newspapers.

Negotiations were going on in this regard between the Management and empolyees, the Labour Department of the State Government had interfered in it but suddenly the Management left the negotiation and then there has been undeclared lock out. The employees staged Dhahran but the Management adopted undeclared lock out. It is a strange situation. It is an attack on the freedom of the press and the Management want to reject t heir demands. Therefore, I thought it proper to raise this issue through you and I would, thorough, you like to demand from the Government to interfere in this matter so that the publication may be restarted.


SHRI CHITTA BASU (Barasat) : Sir, through you I want to draw the attention of the Government regarding the pension scheme for the employees of our country.

I have got with mean advertisement which has been published by the Control Provident Fund Commissioner giving the details of the scheme which the Government propose to introduce. And there is to be a legislation on that subject.

There has been no agreement among the Control trade unions regarding the legislation and also about the scheme itself. It was decided that there should be a meeting of the Central trade unions and if the scheme is accepted by the, then the House may take it up and pass it as early as possible. But this advertisement is from the Central Provident Fund Commissioner

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giving details of the benefits which these employees are entitled to get. This has cased confusion among the million of the employees because there has been no scheme, so far, accepted and prepared so far by the Government

I would, therefore, request the Government to se that the millions of the employees of our country are not confused and the schemes is to be evolved after due consultation with the Central trade unions and a legislation has to be passed as early as possible.


SHRI DAU DAYAL JOSHI (Kota): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the House to great problem being faced by the country. Life saving drugs have not been available for the last three months. It appears that there is some calculated conspiracy between manufacturers and traders. It is unfortunate that even after frequent assurances given by the Government, it has not so tar been able to announced a drug policy for the country. Here we see the fourth Minister of Health of this Government: He has also not been able to announce a drug policy; consequently this encourages the drug manufacturers to hoard drugs in time of need depending on the will drug of manufactures. At present vitamin C is out of market. "Sukee tablets that are required to be taken after operation for healing are also not available in market. This is sbecause the drug manufacturers sell such drugs to the manufacturer of Gold Spot in which it is used.

This is why a drug like Vitamin C is not available in market for patients. And it at all it is available in the market, it is so only after the manufacturers of such drugs huge clandestinely take huge ex- cess amount from the drug-dealers. Through you I would like submit that the Drug Control Department which is already in existence is not discharging its duty and is not enofrcing the rules of the Government and consequently the prices of drugs are increasing day by day. The prices of life-saving drugs have already increased by

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five per cent. I would like to submit to you that the provisions of Drug Control Act should be implemented. We have long been discussing the likely dire consequences of Dunkel Proposals on agriculture, nevertheless the acceptance of Dunkel Proposals are also likely to have a very adverese impact on medicine. Through you I would like to warn the Government that acceptance of the provisions of Dunkel Proposals concerning medicine will lead to a situation when medicine will not be easily available in the market for patients. I would further appeal the medicine should not be included in the list of Dunkel proposals. India should not, at any cost, agree to the proposals otherwise it will be very unfortunate for our country. I say the patients of the country will not get drugs at all. I appeal to you to get the thing clear from the Government whether medicines will be made available for patients of the country or not. The people of the country are not getting medicines at present. I would submit that the Government may please make a statement in the House.


SHRI KABINDRA PURKAYASTHA (Silchar): Mr. Speaker, Sir, firs to fall, because of the incessant rains for the last few days, a vast area of Bark Valley of Assam, particularly the districts of Karimganj, Hailakandi and Cachar, have been badly affected. At least two persons were killed and property worth many lakhs of rupees was damaged. In the mean time, due to, a whirlwind that blew over the district of Cachar, particularly over the constituencies of Sonai and Dholai, many dwelling houses and institutions have been destroyed and that caused heavy loss of property. Whenever local public representatives approached the Government of Assam, the reply from the Administration was that there is no fund for giving any relief to the people. 1, therefore urgent upon the Government of India, considering the situation and helplessness of the Government Assam, to come forward of sanction befitting fund for giving relief to the affected people of the valley.

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MR. SPEAKER: "Leakage of UPSC question papers"-Shri SHarad Yadav.


SHRI SHARAD YADAV (Madhepura): Mr.Speaker, Sir, thanking you for providing me an opportunity to express my views, I would like to raise an issue concerning examinations. Incidents of leaking out of question papers at various universities examinations have alarmingly increased, the recent incident of leaking out of question paper at the examination conducted by Delhi University occurred on the day before yesterday only. The situation has worsened so much that the examinations conducted by the reputed institutions like UPSC have also been affected. The C. B. I inquiry was instituted to investigate into the incident of leaking out of question papers of the UPSC examinations held are Allahabad centre in 1992. The Controller of Examinations was found responsible for be incident as was revealed by the investigation. The candidates, later on, formed an inter- university students union and staged dharna here several times.