He is a notorious smuggler and a poacher in our area, especially the area of the border of Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. He has looted forest wealth worth hundreds of crores of rupees. This includes the sandal wood and other forest produce. For the sake of valuable ivory he has killed a number of elephants. The State Government had made an effort to nab him but it has not succeeded so far. Lot of lives, especially of the police personnel and other innocent people, have been lost.
Tamil Nadu government also supported our worry but unfortunately it is still going on. Recently, a few days back so many young police officers were killed brutally. This should be stopped at once.
In this House we requested the hon. Home Minister to send some assistance to the Karnataka State. He assured us that if a request comes from the State Government he will give us all help. So, I request that either the BSF or other paramilitary forces should be sent there immediately to nab that gangster. This will save us a lot of national wealth and wild life wealth. This has been going on for a long time and till now no solution has been found out. Therefore, I urge upon the Central Government to send
72 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
some assistance immediately and take some action in this regard.
SHRI G. MADE GOWDA(Mandya): Sir, the State of Karnataka and the country know.
SHRI GEROGE FERNANDES (MUZAFFARPUR): I have given an Adjournment Motion.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yours is next.
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Sir, I agree you do not disregard the rules. But you cannot go on doing like this. (Interruptions) SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: If your Government in Karnataka cannot tackle one poacher, I do not know why you are wasting the time of the House over your own Government in Karnataka. You dismiss that Government.
SHRI G. MADE GOWDA: Sir, this is a very very important issue. I request Shri Fernandes.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let us not deviate from the issue.
SHRI V. DHANANJAYA KUMAR(Mangalore): The Chief Minister of
Karnataka will not be of any help. He has gone to Sai Baba. He is after saving his chair. He will not come here to help you.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Dhananjaya Kumar, he is on his legs. How long you want to continue Zero Hour?
SHRI G. MADE GOWDA: Sir, according to Shri Fernandes..
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You please do not refer to Fernandesji. You straightaway come to the point.
SHRI G. MADE GOWDA: Sir, he said
73 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
that the Karnataka Government should be dismissed.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You do not worry about that.. A police
Superintendent has been killed. You say what assistance do you require from the Central Government.
SHRI G. MADE GOWDA: Sir, I wanted to say something but you are not allowing me to speak.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: But why are you making references to others?
SHRI G. MADE GOWDA: Sir, let the country know the Veerappan's case. Veerappan is a notorious smuggler and apoacher. His is a 14 members gang. He has taken the life of a very sincere police officer.
Government is spending a lot of money on the constitution of police force and forest officers and police officers are being sent there to nab this gang. But they are not able to trace them. The government of Karnataka has requested the Union Home Minister, it has appeared in the newspapers, to send the military force to nab these 14 gangsters.
I feel ashamed to know that the Government of Karnataka has acted in this way. I am told that some politicians are encouraging him. So, I request the Home Minister, through you, that before sending the military force he should first collect all the information.
(Interruptions)
SHRI P.C. THOMAS (Muvattupuzha): Sir, when 70,000 employees of FCI were on strike, the MPs and others got involved in it and tried to bring about a compromise. When the nation wide strike was about to start, a compromise was arrived at and a few decisions were taken by the Government. The Government took a decision that if the strike was withdrawn immediately, they will call the Union for a dialogue.
Secondly, it was also decided that the
74 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
General Secretary of the Union, who was to be transferred on an alleged charge of victimisation, his transfer would be kept in abeyance. Now, it is disturbing that that is not being honoured by the FCI Management. Unless, the FCI Management takes immediate steps and calls the FCI Union for a dialogue and also to keep the order of transfer of the General Secretary in abeyance, within a few hours from now, I think, again a nation wide strike would start.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Thomas, do you want that the Government should immediately intervene in the affairs and solve the problem?
(Interruptions)
SHRI P.C. THOMAS: We want a response from the Government.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Thomas, you want that the Central
Government should respond. You also want that they should interfere in their affairs and see that the strike is averted. The Government has heard it.
SHRI P.C. THOMAS: Yes, otherwise, I will have to sit on Dharna.
(Interruptions)
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): Immediately, the Government should intervene and negotiations with the Union should be started.
Thousands of employees are sitting on Dharna at Boat Club.
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Sir, I also endorse the demand made by the hon. Member and support the cause that he has espoused here. It is not only just supporting the cause but it is also a matter where an order given by the Minister has been defied by the Chairman and continues to defy and the governemnt is sitting quietly. I hope;they will take action;' they are your own men. (Interruptions)
75 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: On the floor of this House, this assurance was given and the strike was then withdrawn. (Interruptions) [Translation]
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, today morning, I have given an Adjournment Motion. My Adjournment Motion is about such an issue, which has been discussed in the House during last two sessions ... (Interruptions)
SHRI GULAM NABI AZAD: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will bring it to the notice of the hon. Minister the request regarding FCI made by the hon. Member.
SHRI P.C. THOMAS: Sir, the assurance that was given by the
Government should be honoured.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Thomas, if, tomorrow, you become a
Minister, can you assure such thing on the floor of the House? Let us be very practical.
SHRI P.C. THOMAS: I have met the hon. Prime Minister also. He had also agreed with me that that was the Government's decision.
Sir, I sat on the Well of the hon. House, not for anything else, but only to draw the attention of this House and the nation to the very important demand of the 70,000 employees of the FCI.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Thomas, you are young and you are very dynamic. You have said that 70,000 people are involved in this. You have already mentioned this thing, when you started your speech. Where is the need for you to repeat it. Because of this, many people, who have got important matters to be discussed will lose the chance. After all, you have got only two
76 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
days. Many important matters could not be taken up in the Zero Hour.
It is very unfortunate.
[Translation]
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: That issue has been discussed in the House. And a Minister of External Affairs had to resign on the issue.
The Hon. Prime Minister has said several times both inside and outside the House ... (Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. George, this matter is sub judice, under Rule 58.
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I am not touching any sub judice matter.
[Translation]
First listen to my point and then give your decision..
(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Further, this is not a subject matter which is fit for Adjournment Motion. There are other ways and means by which you can raise this matter.. you can raise this matter at that time.
[Translations]
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I have given you two notices-one is an Adjournment Motion and the other is about raising this issue in the House. Both the notices have been sent to you in time. This issue should not only he discussed here today but some points must also be clarified by the Govt. especially by the Prime Minister in this regard. Today we have received an information that the Government of India has informed the Government of Switzerland
77 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
through the Interpol that it is not at all interested in cases filed against Mr. Win Chadha.. (Interruptions)
[English]
SHRI GULAM NABI AZAD: From which paper are you quoting?
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I am quoting from the information that I have received. I will lay the information on the Table of the House if the Chair so decides.
[Translation]
The police official who is dealing with these matters has stated that
[English]
"We got from the Interpol the official news that in Chadha was no longer being pursued by India and that the international search and warrant against him has been revoked."
[Translation]
A discussion has been held in this House on this subject. The Prime Minister has stated that it would be his own responsibility to bring out the truth before the House and whatever attempts are needed to bring forth the facts will be made. Now we have received the information from that official of Switzerland who is related to it that the 15th November, 1991..(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you speaking about the reported
withdrawal of cases against Win Chadha?
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: No, Sir. I am speaking about Win Chadha who has been wanted in this country. A warrant for his
78 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
search and arrest has been issued by this country in a clandestine manner; that warrant had been withdrawn on the 15th November, 1991.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is a Zero Hour. There are other rules also.
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: There is nothing more important than this.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Under specific provision you can raise this matter.
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Government has given assurance to this House; the Government has not only gone back on their assurance but the Government has acted in a clandestine manner. I charge the Government today with acting in a clandestine manner. On the 15th of November 1991. Interpol of which India is a member; Interpol is not just an international agency; India is part of the Interpol, which means the police authority of this country, in other words the Home Minister and the prime Minister of this country have told Interpol that tour warrant for search and arrest of Win Chadha which has been operational for the last several years is no more valid.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
Where does it lead to? As a result of it Mr. Win Chadha got the permission to stay in Switzerland on the 16th March. Though he may not stay there as a citizen of Switzerland yet he is residing there permanently after obtaining the permission. The cases are pending against him in the Cantonal court of Switzerland as well as in the Court of India. Since last august a lot of attempts have been made by the Govt. of India and a lot of amount has been spent by it to arrest him. Today I would like to draw the attention of the House towards the statement made by the Prime Minister in which he has committed that every effort would be made to arrest
79 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
him. But the Police Official of Switzerland has said another thing.
That even today, if the Government of India seeks for his extradition, they were ready to handover Mr. Win Chaddha. The Police official said that.
[English]
"If the Indian Government really wants the man, they can ask for extradition."
[Translation]
Today we would like to know from the House as well as from the Prime Minister as to who had informed the Interpol that Win Chaddha was no more wanted in India and the warrant which was meant for his arrest has been withdrawn. When this information was sent to the Government of Switzerland? When the Government of India received the information that Switzerland is prepared to extradite Win chadha on the demand of the Govt of India and if the Govt has received such information what action has been taken by it in this regard?
Thirdly, in view of this information we would like to know from the Government of India whether it is ready to ask the Swiss Government to arrest and extradite Mr. Win Chaddha to India because he has owning a house in Switzerland and on the basis of it the Swiss Govt knows his where-abouts. With the valuable contribution of the Indian Express, the whole of the nation is well aware of this information. We would like to know whether the Prime Minister is ready to take steps regarding extradition...
[English]
SHRI ANBARASU ERA (Madras Central): How long will this continue?
For so many months, we have been discussing the same subject.
80 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please conclude.
[Translation]
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is one more issue which is linked with this matter. In this House, Shri Madhav Singh Solanki, the then Minister of External Affairs had said that he had gone to Daos in Switzerland and met his swiss counterpart. After the meeting Shri Solanki had given a letter to him. The foreign Minister of Switzerland has contradicted each and every word of the statement made by Shri Madhav Singh Solanki, the then External Affairs Minister, in this very House, i.e. Lok Sabha. He has contradicted his statement publicly and told that this man..** He had stated that this man has insulted not only the House but also the entire nation. Mr.
Raine Failbar has already stated this thing two months ago. I had written to the Prime Minister a letter that he had protected the Minister of External Affairs in the House as well as outside the House. Now when the whole world knows the deeds of your former External Affairs Minister, what action you are going to take against him particularly when he had committed an offence of breach of trust in the House?
The Prime Minister has not yet replied to my letter for the last two and a half months. when he feels pleasure, he replies. If he feels troubles, he does not reply. I have raised this matter before you in the House. On 2nd June, I had written to the Hon. Speaker that it was the matter of breach of privilege. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, please listen to him first. No discussion has yet been held here on my resolution.
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Ghulam Nabi Azad, would you like to say something?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 81 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Fernandes, my difficulty is that almost one and a half hour is lost and there are so many Members who are agitating. Kindly listen. You should also realise the difficulty of Presiding Officers. It is all discriminating. You have made your case absolutely clear.
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: The question is not how many issues are there. If this House is being misled by the Prime Minister, where do we go ... (Interruptions) .. who is now to discipline this Government, if this House is not going to consider this matter?
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, what I say was that there are so many Members who also want to speak.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I only want to say this much that you should call the Prime Minister and ask him to give a statement regarding the extradition of Mr. Win Chadha.
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, papers to be laid on the Table. Shri Arjun Singhiji...
(Interruptions)
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: I have given notice on this.
[Translation]
SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH (Fatherpur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very essential issue. You please give an
82 Papers Laid
opportunity to Shri Basudeb Acharia. It is a serious matter. The entire case of Mr. Win Cahddha remains unfinished. We were trying to bring him in India. The government has with drawn the warrant issued against him. You are not giving an opportunity to Shri Basudeb Acharia to speak.
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Kindly excuse me Shri V.P. Singhji. There are so many people who want to speak. Is this the desire of the House that the 'Zero Hour' should be extended for one hour?
(Interruptions)
He is insisting since morning.
SHRI ANBARASU ERA: Since 11 O'Clock, I have been asking.
13.45 hrs
19.08.92